ZAP-Hosting Lifetime Servers - Discussion, Updates

Ympker · April 2023

This should be a discussion Thread concerning ZAP-Hosting's Lifetime Servers/Offers

Website: https://zap-hosting.com/en/
Crunchbase Company profile: Click
Northdata: Click
Status Page: https://status.zap-hosting.com/
YABS (from April 2023): VPS, Root Server 1, Root Server 2

In General:
ZAP-Hosting (German company, founded in 2010), after providing Lifetime Minecraft Servers for many years have recently extended their product line to include:

Lifetime "vServer" (LXC); from 79€ for 2vCores, 8GB RAM, 25GB, 500 Mbit/s, 1 IPv4
Lifetime "Rootserver" (KVM); from 154.80€, 4vCores, 8GB RAM, 60GB SSD NAS, 500 Mbit/s, 1Ipv4, Intel Xeon E5-2650v2/Intel Xeon E5-2667v2
Lifetime Dedicated Servers; from 572.80€ for 1x Intel Xeon E5-2603v2, 4 Cores, 1,8 Ghz base clock, 64GB RAM, 500GB SSD, 1 IPv4
Lifetime Webhosting; from 46.80€ for 5GB, 40 e-Mail accounts, 40 MySQL databases, they use Plesk.

You will find that the products first display the monthly price, but in the box to the right where the price total is displayed there is an option where you can click "OR xx€ lifetime".)

Sustainability:
According to the ZAP-Hosting website, there are currently 4043+ active Lifetime Servers , and about 32863 active servers in total. This suggests that while lifetime deals are often considered to be a rip-off and not sustainable, even after deducting 5000-lifetime servers, there would still be about 27000 active servers that are paid through subscriptions/prepaid contracts, suggesting that ZAP-Hosting has enough revenue to sustain their lifetime offers and/or doesn't just vanish overnight.
The total assets were counted as 1.926.615€ in 2021 according to data from Northdata (link above).

The catch (MUST READ!):

ZAP-Hosting, in the light of extending their lifetime server product line, seems to have updated their Terms of Service now requiring ALL their customers who purchased any kind of lifetime product (Minecraft Server/Webspace/vServer/Rootserver/Dedicated Server and future offerings) to log into their ZAP-Hosting Dashboard AND open up the respective product's control panel (e.g. if you have a vps with them, open the vps control panel; if you have a Minecraft Server..) once every 3 months to avoid suspension due to inactivity. If you service/product has been suspended due to inactivity you will apparently receive an email stating that you have 4 weeks to contact them, before your service/product gets cancelled permanently and any right to refund is waived.

ToS excerpt regarding lifetime products (April 9th, 2023):

§ 10 Lifetime products
(1) Products designated as lifetime products are paid for once instead of recurring.

(2) The term Lifetime/infinite/lifelong describes the lifelong right to use the product until it becomes inactive.

(3)** The case of inactivity occurs if the named lifetime product is not accessed by the customer in the customer web interface within 3 months. ZAP-Hosting then reserves the right to switch off and block the product.
If the customer does not contact us for a further 4 weeks after the blocking (grace period), the product will be permanently deleted and the entitlement to lifelong use will be cancelled.** The customer expressly waives the right to a refund of the purchase price.
After contacting us within the grace or blocking period, the inactivity case will be lifted for the time being and the product will be fully usable again.

(4) Lifetime products cannot be paid for with ZAP credits (ZAP Coins) or ZAP coin voucher codes.

I confirmed via Ticket that you DO NOT get a warning before the service gets suspended and was advised by the support staff to add a reminder on my phone (e.g. Google Calendar) to remember to log into the Dashboard and open up the product page. The support staff, however, indicated that during time of suspension, the data would not be removed from the service, albeit they stated that it's always good to have backups in the same sentence. I suggested they contact their customers 1-2 weeks PRIOR to suspension in order to avoid production service suddenly getting suspended and apparently my suggestion was forwarded to whomever (likely /dev/null ).

I also confirmed via ticket that the new change with the inactivity clause affects ALL lifetime products and ALL customers, no matter when the product was purchased.
This means that anyone who purchased a Minecraft lifetime server from any of these Threads ( Thread LES, Thread 1 LET, Thread 2 LET) is affected by this and should log into the dashboard and open up their Minecraft server page asap to avoid any suspension for inactivity and/or possible deletion.

This affects, among others, @Logano @Jamph @dedipromo @kalimov622 @yokowasis @Radi .

Ironically, @Neoon mentioned in one of the threads that ZAP Hosting had such an inactivity clause in the past, but at the time of ordering the Minecraft Servers back then this clause had been removed and only came back to light with the extension of the lifetime product line, it seems.

This part about the inactivity clause sounds tedious and annoying, but I'm sure some people might still be tempted and bite. I am/was tempted myself but holding back due to the annoying clause about inactivity.
I am a lifetime hoarder at heart and I can live with Ivacy VPN requesting me to contact them once every 5 years to extend the offer, but logging into the Dashboard once every 3 months is really annoying.
The company has been around for 13 years now and it's likely not going anywhere so fast. It has, however, also never been known to have a stellar reputation in the german gamserver market in terms of performance and customer reviews.

Installing newer Debian/Ubuntu versions (Debian 11/12, Ubuntu 20/22) on Rootservers:
As ZAP doesn't provide these images natively in the Webinterface for Rootservers atm (only for LXC),
you can try @rootnet guide for netboot to install any os, which works great:

@rootnet said:

@somik said:
Could you please make a thread on how you install it? You did it from the netboot, right? Maybe a step by step instructions on how to install the OS if the host doesn't support CDROMs?

Thanks @Ympker for the shout.

Disclaimer: I made this guide in a hurry. The wordings may not be accurate with what you would be seeing on your screen while accessing zap dashboard or netboot.xyz menu. @Ympker has already tried this guide so I'll let him jump in and mention if there's any corrections needed or any additions/removal required.

Here you go mate

First thing first, make a note of your IP details, you'll need this later in netboot.xyz couple of times.

IP: 111.222.333.444 (your server's IPv4)
subnet: 255.255.255.0 (with zap-hosting it's always this for linux and windows rootserver)
gateway: 111.222.333.1 (The gateway is always the IPv4 address with a 1 at the end)

Step 1: install grub-imageboot
If grub is not already installed in your machine, you can do it so by
apt install grub-imageboot

Step 2: adding netboot.xyz in grub menu
mkdir /boot/images
cd /boot/images
wget https://boot.netboot.xyz/ipxe/netboot.xyz.iso
update-grub2

Step 3: Access your server via VNC
In your Zap dashboard, go to your rootserver and click VNC-Console under tools. Click on 'start vnc tunnel' and then open the vnc webclient.

Step 4: Accessing netboot.xyz
reboot your server by sending ctrl+alt+del command in your VNC browser tab. As soon as it reboots, you will see Proxmox boot screen. And soon after that you'll see the grub menu (blue screen). Once you see blue screen/grub menu, use your arrow buttons and select netboot.xyz. The option should show as 'bootable iso image: netboot.xyz' or something similar.

Step 5: setting up network interface in netboot.xyz
Once you select netboot.xyz in step 4, let it do its thing. It'll take few seconds and then you'll be greeted with few questions to configure your network interface. Type in these;

Set network interface number: 0

IP: 111.222.333.444 (your server's IPv4)

Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Gateway: 111.222.333.1

DNS: 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 (whatever you prefer)
and press enter. You should now be greeted with netboot.xyz menu.

Step 6: From here, I believe you are already familiar with how to use netboot.xyz. If not, here's how I do it. I'll post steps for ubuntu 22.04 installation
go to 'linux network installs'. Select Ubuntu and then 22.04 and then select install.
netboot.xyz will do it's thing to prepare the installation. It's going to take its time. Don't be alarmed if the text shows "done" multiple times and there's no activity after that. Netboot is still doing its thing in the backend. Eventually (after 1-2 mins), netboot will say "unable to find a medium with live file system. And it will ask you few questions. Input these answers

attempt interactive netboot from a URL? yes

static or dhcp ip config? static

IP: 111.222.333.444 (your server's IPv4)

Subnet: 255.255.255.0

Gateway: 111.222.333.1

DNS: 1.1.1.1 (if you want to add more than 1 nameserver, you can do so here. Just leave a space between each entry, for example 1.1.1.1 1.0.0.1 8.8.8.8)

vlan id: leave it blank

url: the default url configured in netboot is for the previous version. It does not work. so type in https://releases.ubuntu.com/jammy/ubnutu-22.04.2-live-server-amd64.iso (or you can use any ubuntu mirrors or your own link to the ubuntu ISO. If Ubuntu releases a newer version by the time you read this, make sure you adjust the URL accordingly.)

http_proxy: leave it blank
It will start downloading the ISO and then greet you with the Ubuntu live installer screen. From here, simply follow the on screen prompts to install the ubuntu server. Make sure you select 'install ssh server' when it asks in the installation steps.

Steps for installing Debian should be the same, but much more simpler. With debian installation, you won't have to enter an url for ISO download. The only place where debian installer will fail is on the network config page. By default debian installer tries DHCP. It will say network config failed. All you have to do is select 'static network' on that screen, enter the IP details you noted down earlier and then carry on with the remaining on-screen prompts.

Neoon · April 2023

Someone buy one, lifetime, put proxmox on it, resell cheap NAT KVM's here.

cmeerw · April 2023

@Ympker said: I also confirmed via ticket that the new change with the inactivity clause affects ALL lifetime products and ALL customers, no matter when the product was purchased.

If this hasn't been made clear upfront (and particularly if it was changed at a later date), it might be seen as an unfair contract term

Ympker · April 2023

@cmeerw said:

@Ympker said: I also confirmed via ticket that the new change with the inactivity clause affects ALL lifetime products and ALL customers, no matter when the product was purchased.

If this hasn't been made clear upfront (and particularly if it was changed at a later date), it might be seen as an unfair contract term

It was not in the ToS back then when we all ordered on December 2021. I also have a ticket from back then which states that support agent is not "aware" of any inactivity clause.
Might ask them regarding this, but probably not worth the hassle. In a year or so they'll probably try again.

schism · April 2023

Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

Neoon · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@cmeerw said:

@Ympker said: I also confirmed via ticket that the new change with the inactivity clause affects ALL lifetime products and ALL customers, no matter when the product was purchased.

If this hasn't been made clear upfront (and particularly if it was changed at a later date), it might be seen as an unfair contract term

It was not in the ToS back then when we all ordered on December 2021. I also have a ticket from back then which states that support agent is not "aware" of any inactivity clause.
Might ask them regarding this, but probably not worth the hassle. In a year or so they'll probably try again.

its in the ToS right now, despite that, they can update the ToS as they want, they would have to notify you though.
You could disagree, which they would terminate your services.

Also, Keep in mind.
"The customer expressly waives the right to a refund of the purchase price."

So if they push something you don't like, you fucked.
I doubt that they would do it but still, they could, so lets say something gets expensive or abused, things might change and you need to eat it.

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

@Neoon said:

@Ympker said:

@cmeerw said:

@Ympker said: I also confirmed via ticket that the new change with the inactivity clause affects ALL lifetime products and ALL customers, no matter when the product was purchased.

If this hasn't been made clear upfront (and particularly if it was changed at a later date), it might be seen as an unfair contract term

It was not in the ToS back then when we all ordered on December 2021. I also have a ticket from back then which states that support agent is not "aware" of any inactivity clause.
Might ask them regarding this, but probably not worth the hassle. In a year or so they'll probably try again.

its in the ToS right now, despite that, they can update the ToS as they want, they would have to notify you though.
You could disagree, which they would terminate your services.

Also, Keep in mind.
"The customer expressly waives the right to a refund of the purchase price."

So if they push something you don't like, you fucked.
I doubt that they would do it but still, they could, so lets say something gets expensive or abused, things might change and you need to eat it.

That is true, but while AGB/TOS are important in Germany it doesn't mean anything they state there is legally fine. E.g. they could write in their TOS, that you have to give them your newborn, if you forgot to pay but whether that holds up legally is another question. Then again, who wants to go to court over some virtual server. So yeah, unless you legally challenge questionable changes to TOS, you'll have to deal with it..and if you legally challenge them it's usually the end of the relationship between client and provider one way or another..

cmeerw · April 2023

@Neoon said: its in the ToS right now, despite that, they can update the ToS as they want

As they are based in the EU, there are limits to what they can do, as stated here with some examples:

Terms which bind consumers even though they could not easily have been aware of them before signing the contract.

Terms which allow the trader to alter a contract unilaterally, unless the contract states a valid reason for doing so.

Terms which allow a trader to make changes to the product or service to be provided unilaterally and without a valid reason.

schism · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

webcraft · April 2023

Don't expect too good performance but lifetime means a longer lifetime there than on many other services imo.

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

schism · April 2023

@webcraft said:
Don't expect too good performance but lifetime means a longer lifetime there than on many other services imo.

Yeah after dealing with their ticket people I am not expecting much....

schism · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

schism · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

The fact you did get ticket replies today, on a Sunday and on Easter, is commendable though. But yeah, mostly L1 agents online rn.

schism · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

The fact you did get ticket replies today, on a Sunday and on Easter, is commendable though. But yeah, mostly L1 agents online rn.

I think one of the people was listed as a level 2 but yeah I agree it's a major holiday so the response time was surprising (around 15 minutes each) although to be fair the do say 24/7 so.....

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

The fact you did get ticket replies today, on a Sunday and on Easter, is commendable though. But yeah, mostly L1 agents online rn.

I think one of the people was listed as a level 2 but yeah I agree it's a major holiday so the response time was surprising (around 15 minutes each) although to be fair the do say 24/7 so.....

I waited 4-5 hours for response today.

schism · April 2023

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

The fact you did get ticket replies today, on a Sunday and on Easter, is commendable though. But yeah, mostly L1 agents online rn.

I think one of the people was listed as a level 2 but yeah I agree it's a major holiday so the response time was surprising (around 15 minutes each) although to be fair the do say 24/7 so.....

I waited 4-5 hours for response today.

wow.................. May I ask who? Plus you probably have a manly server, I have little kids toys.....

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:

@Ympker said:

@schism said:
Well even as the new guy I have to weigh in I guess. As in my general topic post I commented that I had decided to get a mess of servers as it's kind of addicting with the prices here so I saw this one and decided I would take the dozen I had and make it a bakers dozen. I spun up an Ubuntu server and as a real world example thing I had a github pulled up on my laptop so I cloned it to the vps and started building it at the same time as my laptop so I could get a feel for it. The vps gets suspended for crypto mining for running make with gcc....... In total fairness when I looked at the code they showed me and I looked at the github I was looking at (yeah I forgot, adult add is a thing and I walked away from the laptop to clean the toilet) it was xmrig which is a miner for cpu crypto mining. I responded to them in a lighthearted way as that's what I do and let's say that it kind of went downhill from there. After I explained to them that there was no mining or no intention of mining they agreed to flip the vps on after an os reinstall and that if it happened again they would suspend the account with no refund. I get the mining thing but there was no mining just gcc which is allowed. Still going to play with the vps so I am still not sure if it is a good one or not (it did seem to be building about the same speed as my laptop before I walked away) however I wanted to give people a heads up of how they respond to using gcc and how deep they watch.

So did you order a lifetime vps? If so, care to share https://yabs.sh Benchmark with us?

Just saw your reply. Yep I went and got the lifer and am running it now and sending the output to a text file. I'll upload it as soon as it's done.

Benchmark still running?

Yeah the server became unresponsive and I had to shut it down through the website and restart it. I dont think it was the test thing. here is the link it generated https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/857624

Thanks, not too bad.

Single: 677
Multi: 1168

I have no idea what I'm looking at so I will take you'r word for it lol. All I know is that I keep loosing ssh with it and my experiance with their ticket people so far.....

The fact you did get ticket replies today, on a Sunday and on Easter, is commendable though. But yeah, mostly L1 agents online rn.

I think one of the people was listed as a level 2 but yeah I agree it's a major holiday so the response time was surprising (around 15 minutes each) although to be fair the do say 24/7 so.....

I waited 4-5 hours for response today.

wow.................. May I ask who? Plus you probably have a manly server, I have little kids toys.....

Who? Support Agent? I won't share their name but I don't think it would matter who answered either. It was a question they were likely not too happy to answer (whether old lifetime deals were also affected by this inactivity fee).

I only have some small lifetime Minecraft server with them and my vps are tiny too

schism · April 2023

Sorry I meant which provider didn't put 2 and 2 together lol. As an aside if you attempt to upgrade from ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 evidently iy trashes the machine. Time to go see if I can find out how to rebuild it.....

dgc1980 · April 2023

@schism said: Time to go see if I can find out how to rebuild it

if you have access to a kvm vnc, you could write netboot.xyz to the hdd and reboot it, then use that to install 22.04 directly without upgrades, if it is the LXC one, SOL

schism · April 2023

@dgc1980 said:

@schism said: Time to go see if I can find out how to rebuild it

if you have access to a kvm vnc, you could write netboot.xyz to the hdd and reboot it, then use that to install 22.04 directly without upgrades, if it is the LXC one, SOL

See I know what those letters are...... I just have no idea what they mean lol.

Ympker · April 2023

@schism said:
Sorry I meant which provider didn't put 2 and 2 together lol. As an aside if you attempt to upgrade from ubuntu 20.04 to 22.04 evidently iy trashes the machine. Time to go see if I can find out how to rebuild it.....

Also ZAP Hosting (Mc server).

Fml. Just ordered Finland 2vCores, 8GB RAM, 25GB . Fwiw, I would have had to login every 3 months now anyway, in order to keep alive my Minecraft lifetime server I bought in 2021.

The VPS interface looks clean and simple Pw login is disabled by default, you can add/generate ssh keys in the interface which are added without reboot (LXC). There is also DDoS Manager which allows to choose between different modes (always-on, temporary, and some semi-protected mode). You can manage rDNS, reinstall, start/stop and use VNC from the management interface, too.

I opted for Finland, because German location didn't look really stable on their Status page (lots of 1-2h downtimes) compared to Finland which has been up 100%. YABS is coming after my vacation

Ympker · April 2023

There is even an option you can enable to run Docker containers on your LXC vps

skizio · May 2023

Hi @Ympker , how the vps performance and uptime?

Ympker · May 2023

@skizio said:
Hi @Ympker , how the vps performance and uptime?

Hi, I only recently (22th of April) set up monitoring on Hetrixtools, but Finland LXC seems to run stable: https://hetrixtools.com/report/uptime/f409b9c69d3f363d8ef67455d5e6d4bc/

FIO test wasn't that great, but it's okay.

@Ympker said:
ZAP Hosting Lifetime VPS LXC Finland, 2vCores, 8GB RAM, 25GB Disk Space, 500 Mbit/s

YABS (Geekbench 6 aborted,Geekbench 5 worked).
Disk speed is kind of meh (it's no ssd though), and IP Location shows Pakistan (not correct) but still I'll be able to make use of this machine.

user@vps-1:~# curl -sL yabs.sh | bash
# ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #
#              Yet-Another-Bench-Script              #
#                     v2023-03-24                    #
# https://github.com/masonr/yet-another-bench-script #
# ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #

Mon Apr 17 17:09:58 UTC 2023

Basic System Information:
---------------------------------
Uptime     : 0 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes
Processor  : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2 @ 2.80GHz
CPU cores  : 2 @ 3131.169 MHz
AES-NI     : ✔ Enabled
VM-x/AMD-V : ✔ Enabled
RAM        : 8.0 GiB
Swap       : 0.0 KiB
Disk       : 24.5 GiB
Distro     : Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
Kernel     : 5.4.65-1-pve
VM Type    : LXC
Net Online : IPv4

IPv4 Network Information:
---------------------------------
ISP        : combahton GmbH
ASN        : AS30823 combahton GmbH
Host       : Cloudj Limited
Location   : Karachi, Sindh (SD)
Country    : Pakistan

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):
---------------------------------
Block Size | 4k            (IOPS) | 64k           (IOPS)
  ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ----
Read       | 8.00 MB/s     (2.0k) | 1.03 GB/s    (16.1k)
Write      | 8.02 MB/s     (2.0k) | 1.03 GB/s    (16.2k)
Total      | 16.03 MB/s    (4.0k) | 2.07 GB/s    (32.3k)
           |                      |
Block Size | 512k          (IOPS) | 1m            (IOPS)
  ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ----
Read       | 1.08 GB/s     (2.1k) | 1.52 MB/s        (1)
Write      | 1.14 GB/s     (2.2k) | 1.89 MB/s        (1)
Total      | 2.22 GB/s     (4.3k) | 3.41 MB/s        (2)

iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv4):
---------------------------------
Provider        | Location (Link)           | Send Speed      | Recv Speed      | Ping
-----           | -----                     | ----            | ----            | ----
Clouvider       | London, UK (10G)          | busy            | 493 Mbits/sec   | 38.9 ms
Scaleway        | Paris, FR (10G)           | 483 Mbits/sec   | 440 Mbits/sec   | 32.1 ms
NovoServe       | North Holland, NL (40G)   | 484 Mbits/sec   | 494 Mbits/sec   | 27.2 ms
Uztelecom       | Tashkent, UZ (10G)        | 334 Mbits/sec   | 465 Mbits/sec   | 100 ms
Clouvider       | NYC, NY, US (10G)         | busy            | 365 Mbits/sec   | 96.3 ms
Clouvider       | Dallas, TX, US (10G)      | 138 Mbits/sec   | 403 Mbits/sec   | 131 ms
Clouvider       | Los Angeles, CA, US (10G) | busy            | 80.4 Mbits/sec  | 159 ms

Geekbench 5 Benchmark Test:
---------------------------------
Test            | Value
                |
Single Core     | 587
Multi Core      | 1098
Full Test       | https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/21073507

YABS completed in 3 min 16 sec

I also have a Rootserver (Germany) which I prepaid for 30 days with free ZAP coins trialing it atm to see performance. Rootserver had slower FIO results on both, Finland and Germany, though. However, CPU scored more. To be fair, they were happy to let me try FIO on both, Germany and Finland Rootserver (they refunded my payment once so I could try the other location which was really nice), however both FIO results weren't that impressive, unfortunately.

FIO Rootserver Germany:

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):

Block Size 4k (IOPS) 64k (IOPS)

Read 2.91 MB/s (727) 3.32 MB/s (51)

Write 2.93 MB/s (732) 3.55 MB/s (55)

Total 5.84 MB/s (1.4k) 6.87 MB/s (106)

Block Size 512k (IOPS) 1m (IOPS)

------ --- ---- ---- ----

Read 72.67 MB/s (141) 73.56 MB/s (71)

Write 76.53 MB/s (149) 78.46 MB/s (76)

Total 149.20 MB/s (290) 152.02 MB/s (147)

FIO Finland Rootserver

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):

Block Size 4k (IOPS) 64k (IOPS)

Read 3.02 MB/s (756) 4.21 MB/s (65)

Write 3.04 MB/s (760) 4.46 MB/s (69)

Total 6.06 MB/s (1.5k) 8.68 MB/s (134)

Block Size 512k (IOPS) 1m (IOPS)

------ --- ---- ---- ----

Read 25.55 MB/s (49) 35.20 MB/s (34)

Write 26.99 MB/s (52) 38.11 MB/s (37)

Total 52.55 MB/s (101) 73.32 MB/s (71)

I also run a full YABS of Rootserver, but results are at home on PC.
Can post later.
Hope this helps

skizio · May 2023

Thanks @Ympker . I thinking using this for some low trafic personal wordpress web.

Ympker · May 2023

@skizio said:
Thanks @Ympker . I thinking using this for some low trafic personal wordpress web.

It should be perfectly capable for that use case
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

root · May 2023

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

rubenmdh · May 2023

@root said:

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

zgato · May 2023

@rubenmdh said:

@root said:

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

somik · May 2023

@zgato said:

@rubenmdh said:
I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

Lifetime... of what? Yours, the hosts, the owners, or of the parts?

root · May 2023

@somik said:

@zgato said:

@rubenmdh said:
I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

Lifetime... of what? Yours, the hosts, the owners, or of the parts?

I never trusted the idea of selling lifetime VPS. I just can't trust it because it gets defeated by simple mathematics.

As an example: there was CloudAtCost at some point which oversold the 💩 out of their servers for lifetimes, and then changed the rules for adding "maintenance fees". Lifetimes can't possibly work for long periods of times (such as 20 years), because circumstances can always change. Even support becomes a mess, as lifetime plans get older and need support (with CloudAtCost it was non-existent).

Sure, there are lifetimes that have a chance to work. For example VPNs can work, because a VPN mostly needs bandwidth. As fibre optics becomes cheaper and bandwidth becomes cheaper, this model is somewhat sustainable considering not all lifetime accounts are used at the same time. But with VPS... or even dedicated... hell no... it's a totally different game.

The only lifetime VPS mechanic I can see working is into some free giveaway when a company reaches some celebration or achievement; mostly this can be done for publicity and exposure; but that's about it. I have seen Cloudcone do this sometimes and such advertising seems to work.

fluttershy · May 2023

@root said:

@somik said:

@zgato said:

@rubenmdh said:
I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

Lifetime... of what? Yours, the hosts, the owners, or of the parts?

I never trusted the idea of selling lifetime VPS. I just can't trust it because it gets defeated by simple mathematics.

As an example: there was CloudAtCost at some point which oversold the 💩 out of their servers for lifetimes, and then changed the rules for adding "maintenance fees". Lifetimes can't possibly work for long periods of times (such as 20 years), because circumstances can always change. Even support becomes a mess, as lifetime plans get older and need support (with CloudAtCost it was non-existent).

Sure, there are lifetimes that have a chance to work. For example VPNs can work, because a VPN mostly needs bandwidth. As fibre optics becomes cheaper and bandwidth becomes cheaper, this model is somewhat sustainable considering not all lifetime accounts are used at the same time. But with VPS... or even dedicated... hell no... it's a totally different game.

The only lifetime VPS mechanic I can see working is into some free giveaway when a company reaches some celebration or achievement; mostly this can be done for publicity and exposure; but that's about it. I have seen Cloudcone do this sometimes and such advertising seems to work.

lifetime dedis are super not sustainable. I view them as basically prepaying for 1 year and then having an ephemeral server for any time after that. Dedis need rackspace and power, and you can't offset the cost of a node with customers on reoccuring plans like you can with VPS. Lifetime VPS is more fine, since it's basically just a way to fill excess node space + secure immediate funding for new nodes to be deployed. I think that there is nothing wrong with a provider selling those in moderation. Anyone selling services with non reoccuring billing while having their suppliers requiring consistent cash flow (webhosting, vps, dedi, game servers) is operating a ponzi scheme if the majority of their deals are "lifetime" and should be treated as such. I do think they're fun deals when done in moderation to fill out node space (see @jarland 's mxroute deals as an example of lifetime deals done well).

somik · May 2023

@fluttershy said:
Lifetime VPS is more fine, since it's basically just a way to fill excess node space

I dont think even VPS is ok, as they are still taking up the resources of the server in terms of ram and cpu, but mini VPS plans are ok.

@fluttershy said:
I do think they're fun deals when done in moderation to fill out node space (see @jarland 's mxroute deals as an example of lifetime deals done well).

Agree with you there. Hosting plans with lifetime are ok as even 1 year hosting is only like $20 for a good hosting service.

rubenmdh · May 2023

@zgato said:

@rubenmdh said:

@root said:

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

Yes, there's the same "tremendous" limit for dedicateds regardless of the mode you choose. But at least it is connected to a 10Gbps pipe.

Ympker · May 2023

@rubenmdh said:

@root said:

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Yup, Comathon Network.
You even took a bite on the lifetime dedi? I was hesitant, because the hw could get old at some point, and lxc would probably just see nodes replaced with newer hw once it gets old. Can you give some feedback regarding the dedi? Which one did you get?
Regarding their data centre, there is some info on the website iirc:

Germany, FFM, Eygelshoven:

We offer an own server infrastructure with our own network and dedicated hardware at our main location Frankfurt am Main, Germany. The company "ZAP-Hosting" was built on this location in 2010.

As a "branch" of our data center in Frankfurt, the Tier III data center "SkyLink" in Eygelshoven (near Aachen, directly on the Dutch border) was introduced in March 2020. All traffic is routed via Frankfurt, so that our customers benefit from an optimal connection and DDoS Protection.

DDoS Protection
Since December 2019, we have been using the Combahton DDoS Protection with Corebackbone pre-filtering in Frankfurt and Eygelshoven.

Hardware:
Especially HP C7000 G3 ProLiant blade systems with 16x HP G8/G9 blades with 2x E5-2690v2/v4 CPUs each are used. Each with DDR3 and DDR4 ECC memory with up to 3000 MHz speed.
We rely on and Juniper switches. Our coreswitch has 48x 10G SFP+ ports, over which the entire uplink of our infrastructure is obtained. Through this switch we provide all other switches with uplinks.

IP networks
As an official RIPE member we offer our own IP addresses at this location.

Dieselstraße 37, 60314 Frankfurt am Main, Deutschland

Finland DC:

Our data center in Helsinki, Finland convinces with short intervention times in case of problems. Especially players and users from the Baltic States (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), as well as from parts of Russia, Belarus and Sweden benefit from the location of the data center.

Hardware:
We
rely on over-clocked CPUs, 64 GB for our game-server host server with DDR4 regECC memory and fast NVMe SSDs. VPS are hosted on server CPUs with at least 14 cores.

DDoS Protection:
The site in Helsinki, Finland offers optimal DDoS protection with a possible mitigation of up to 2 Tbit/s.

On-site personnel:
Technicians are on site 24/7 for emergencies.
Our
Monitoring system informs us about all failures in real time. So immediate intervention of a technician on site is possible.

Helsinki, Finland> @fluttershy said:

@root said:

@somik said:

@zgato said:

@rubenmdh said:
I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Do you have any bandwidth limit with your dedi? With VPSs there are 5TB

Lifetime... of what? Yours, the hosts, the owners, or of the parts?

I never trusted the idea of selling lifetime VPS. I just can't trust it because it gets defeated by simple mathematics.

As an example: there was CloudAtCost at some point which oversold the 💩 out of their servers for lifetimes, and then changed the rules for adding "maintenance fees". Lifetimes can't possibly work for long periods of times (such as 20 years), because circumstances can always change. Even support becomes a mess, as lifetime plans get older and need support (with CloudAtCost it was non-existent).

Sure, there are lifetimes that have a chance to work. For example VPNs can work, because a VPN mostly needs bandwidth. As fibre optics becomes cheaper and bandwidth becomes cheaper, this model is somewhat sustainable considering not all lifetime accounts are used at the same time. But with VPS... or even dedicated... hell no... it's a totally different game.

The only lifetime VPS mechanic I can see working is into some free giveaway when a company reaches some celebration or achievement; mostly this can be done for publicity and exposure; but that's about it. I have seen Cloudcone do this sometimes and such advertising seems to work.

lifetime dedis are super not sustainable. I view them as basically prepaying for 1 year and then having an ephemeral server for any time after that. Dedis need rackspace and power, and you can't offset the cost of a node with customers on reoccuring plans like you can with VPS. Lifetime VPS is more fine, since it's basically just a way to fill excess node space + secure immediate funding for new nodes to be deployed. I think that there is nothing wrong with a provider selling those in moderation. Anyone selling services with non reoccuring billing while having their suppliers requiring consistent cash flow (webhosting, vps, dedi, game servers) is operating a ponzi scheme if the majority of their deals are "lifetime" and should be treated as such. I do think they're fun deals when done in moderation to fill out node space (see @jarland 's mxroute deals as an example of lifetime deals done well).

@root
While I agree lifetime Dedis are not sustainable in itself , it could work if they just tag it as a product line that generates them loss, but publicity, which then again could bring them some people who just get a subscription service, or "just" a lifetime vps.
The way I see it, right now, they have the means to sustain their lifetime deals through a means of a) 30.000+ servers that are rented with recurring subs (so they have a steady income sort of) + b) huge (inital) cash flow through lifetime deals (kind of the point why companies offer lifetime anything), c) FOMO ("How long will they keep offering lifetime..dedi/vps?"), which can't be underestimated and d) the inactivity clause which they could even reduce from 3 months to 1 month in ToS any time. Remember, originally my lifetime mc server was bought without any inactivity clause, however (legal or not), it supposedly applies now to my old product, too. There's also the chance many lifetime buyers (like me) are hoarders, who just idle their vps, so VPS can be oversold quite a lot. I'm not sure how long they'll be able to keep this all up, but as long as cash comes in a (good) Ponzischeme can run for years and years, where I would've gotten my money's worth out of the deal, so in this case I'm happy to just ride the wave :P

fluttershy · May 2023

@somik said:

@fluttershy said:
Lifetime VPS is more fine, since it's basically just a way to fill excess node space

I dont think even VPS is ok, as they are still taking up the resources of the server in terms of ram and cpu, but mini VPS plans are ok.

I explained why they make sense right below this. Most providers don't cram their nodes, this lets them fill overhead while having extra cash on hand to purchase new hardware. The reoccurring customers are paying for rackspace, bandwidth, and power needed to run the hypervisors. The only real costs are hardware, which is generally a one time payment. So for VPS, I can see a reason to offer lifetime plans. Not a good reason, and only if they're not offering too many, since otherwise it becomes a ponzi.

Ympker · May 2023

@fluttershy said:

@somik said:

@fluttershy said:
Lifetime VPS is more fine, since it's basically just a way to fill excess node space

I dont think even VPS is ok, as they are still taking up the resources of the server in terms of ram and cpu, but mini VPS plans are ok.

I explained why they make sense right below this. Most providers don't cram their nodes, this lets them fill overhead while having extra cash on hand to purchase new hardware. The reoccurring customers are paying for rackspace, bandwidth, and power needed to run the hypervisors. The only real costs are hardware, which is generally a one time payment. So for VPS, I can see a reason to offer lifetime plans. Not a good reason, and only if they're not offering too many, since otherwise it becomes a ponzi.

Exactly. With VPS they could just fill empty space, while recurring costs would be covered by their subscription customers.

Currently 10% discount which can also be used for lifetimes: use code "everything-10" upon checkout.

sgheghele · May 2023

It seems that I picked a good time to login to LES after quite a while! They do not declare an AS nor they have a looking glass anywhere. @Ympker, could you kindly find out the AS from your IP with them? You just need to paste the IP into bgp.he.net.

Ympker · May 2023

@sgheghele said:
It seems that I picked a good time to login to LES after quite a while! They do not declare an AS nor they have a looking glass anywhere. @Ympker, could you kindly find out the AS from your IP with them? You just need to paste the IP into bgp.he.net.

Sure Combathon is Prem in Frankfurt as I've been told. I have Finland location for LXC, though. I also have a Rootserver in Germany with them, though. ASN is the same.
ASN : AS30823 combahton GmbH
Welcome back, mate!

It was also included in my YABS:

@Ympker said:
ZAP Hosting Lifetime VPS LXC Finland, 2vCores, 8GB RAM, 25GB Disk Space, 500 Mbit/s

YABS (Geekbench 6 aborted,Geekbench 5 worked).
Disk speed is kind of meh (it's no ssd though), and IP Location shows Pakistan (not correct) but still I'll be able to make use of this machine.

user@vps-1:~# curl -sL yabs.sh | bash
# ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #
#              Yet-Another-Bench-Script              #
#                     v2023-03-24                    #
# https://github.com/masonr/yet-another-bench-script #
# ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## ## #

Mon Apr 17 17:09:58 UTC 2023

Basic System Information:
---------------------------------
Uptime     : 0 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes
Processor  : Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2680 v2 @ 2.80GHz
CPU cores  : 2 @ 3131.169 MHz
AES-NI     : ✔ Enabled
VM-x/AMD-V : ✔ Enabled
RAM        : 8.0 GiB
Swap       : 0.0 KiB
Disk       : 24.5 GiB
Distro     : Ubuntu 20.04 LTS
Kernel     : 5.4.65-1-pve
VM Type    : LXC
Net Online : IPv4

IPv4 Network Information:
---------------------------------
ISP        : combahton GmbH
ASN        : AS30823 combahton GmbH
Host       : Cloudj Limited
Location   : Karachi, Sindh (SD)
Country    : Pakistan

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):
---------------------------------
Block Size | 4k            (IOPS) | 64k           (IOPS)
  ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ----
Read       | 8.00 MB/s     (2.0k) | 1.03 GB/s    (16.1k)
Write      | 8.02 MB/s     (2.0k) | 1.03 GB/s    (16.2k)
Total      | 16.03 MB/s    (4.0k) | 2.07 GB/s    (32.3k)
           |                      |
Block Size | 512k          (IOPS) | 1m            (IOPS)
  ------   | ---            ----  | ----           ----
Read       | 1.08 GB/s     (2.1k) | 1.52 MB/s        (1)
Write      | 1.14 GB/s     (2.2k) | 1.89 MB/s        (1)
Total      | 2.22 GB/s     (4.3k) | 3.41 MB/s        (2)

iperf3 Network Speed Tests (IPv4):
---------------------------------
Provider        | Location (Link)           | Send Speed      | Recv Speed      | Ping
-----           | -----                     | ----            | ----            | ----
Clouvider       | London, UK (10G)          | busy            | 493 Mbits/sec   | 38.9 ms
Scaleway        | Paris, FR (10G)           | 483 Mbits/sec   | 440 Mbits/sec   | 32.1 ms
NovoServe       | North Holland, NL (40G)   | 484 Mbits/sec   | 494 Mbits/sec   | 27.2 ms
Uztelecom       | Tashkent, UZ (10G)        | 334 Mbits/sec   | 465 Mbits/sec   | 100 ms
Clouvider       | NYC, NY, US (10G)         | busy            | 365 Mbits/sec   | 96.3 ms
Clouvider       | Dallas, TX, US (10G)      | 138 Mbits/sec   | 403 Mbits/sec   | 131 ms
Clouvider       | Los Angeles, CA, US (10G) | busy            | 80.4 Mbits/sec  | 159 ms

Geekbench 5 Benchmark Test:
---------------------------------
Test            | Value
                |
Single Core     | 587
Multi Core      | 1098
Full Test       | https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/21073507

YABS completed in 3 min 16 sec

root · May 2023

On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

Ympker · May 2023

@root said:
On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

No option to upload own ISO. Only for dedicated servers. I actually asked about netboot this morning on Discord, have to check for a reply later. Rootservers have outdated Distros (Ubuntu 18.04 is bugged apparently and Debian 10 is the only one available, basically).

They are, however, working on adding more images as the issue is talked about on their Discord (English and German channels) on a weekly/monthly basis. A discord staff told me that they are sort of working on a bigger update/improvement for all Rootservers, that's why it's taking so long and we still sit with old images. Technically, you can also install Ubuntu 18, ask them to fix the buggy bug (network conf bug apparently) and then do-realse uprade to 20.04 manually.

LXC have up-to-date distros (Ubuntu 20.04, Debian 11..)

rootnet · May 2023

@root said:
On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

I've got a linux rootserver with them. I usually install their Debian 10, and then add netboot.xyz to the grub menu. Reboot the server, access netboot.xyz from the VNC and then you can install whatever linux distro you like. I've personally tried and installed ubuntu 22.04 and debian 11 through netboot.xyz and it works perfectly fine.

@Ympker said:

@root said:
On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

No option to upload own ISO. Only for dedicated servers. I actually asked about netboot this morning on Discord, have to check for a reply later. Rootservers have outdated Distros (Ubuntu 18.04 is bugged apparently and Debian 10 is the only one available, basically).

They are, however, working on adding more images as the issue is talked about on their Discord (English and German channels) on a weekly/monthly basis. A discord staff told me that they are sort of working on a bigger update/improvement for all Rootservers, that's why it's taking so long and we still sit with old images. Technically, you can also install Ubuntu 18, ask them to fix the buggy bug (network conf bug apparently) and then do-realse uprade to 20.04 manually.

LXC have up-to-date distros (Ubuntu 20.04, Debian 11..)

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know they are cooking something for rootservers.

Ympker · May 2023

@rootnet said:

@root said:
On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

I've got a linux rootserver with them. I usually install their Debian 10, and then add netboot.xyz to the grub menu. Reboot the server, access netboot.xyz from the VNC and then you can install whatever linux distro you like. I've personally tried and installed ubuntu 22.04 and debian 11 through netboot.xyz and it works perfectly fine.

@Ympker said:

@root said:
On selecting the OS it seems they have very old operating systems. Do they allow uploading some ISO or netboot.xyz in the client area?

No option to upload own ISO. Only for dedicated servers. I actually asked about netboot this morning on Discord, have to check for a reply later. Rootservers have outdated Distros (Ubuntu 18.04 is bugged apparently and Debian 10 is the only one available, basically).

They are, however, working on adding more images as the issue is talked about on their Discord (English and German channels) on a weekly/monthly basis. A discord staff told me that they are sort of working on a bigger update/improvement for all Rootservers, that's why it's taking so long and we still sit with old images. Technically, you can also install Ubuntu 18, ask them to fix the buggy bug (network conf bug apparently) and then do-realse uprade to 20.04 manually.

LXC have up-to-date distros (Ubuntu 20.04, Debian 11..)

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to know they are cooking something for rootservers.

Need to try that with my rootserver, thanks!

Yup, they are working to improve (Root-)servers/Panel overall, but it's not just about OS versions, hence why it's taking so long.

sgheghele · May 2023

Although not explicitly shown on bgp.he.net, they (Combathon) go to AS3320 (Deutsche Telekom) directly, at least from Frankfurt. Just tested with their cheapest prepaid VPS. This may be it 🥹

traceroute to MY_IP (MY_IP), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  * * *
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  ae6-core4.core3.ffm3.de (45.138.175.61)  5.833 ms  5.815 ms  5.831 ms
 5  160.20.144.69 (160.20.144.69)  5.263 ms  5.353 ms  5.343 ms
 6  f-ed3-i.F.DE.NET.DTAG.DE (62.157.251.157)  5.712 ms  5.796 ms  5.786 ms
 7  NEAR_MY_HOST.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (NEAR_MY_IP)  8.154 ms  8.182 ms  8.158 ms
 8  MY_HOST.t-ipconnect.de (MY_IP)  11.654 ms  12.096 ms  11.539 ms

somik · May 2023

@sgheghele said:
Although not explicitly shown on bgp.he.net, they (Combathon) go to AS3320 (Deutsche Telekom) directly, at least from Frankfurt. Just tested with their cheapest prepaid VPS. This may be it 🥹

Sorry, what's wrong with going through AS3320?

Ympker · May 2023

@somik said:

@sgheghele said:
Although not explicitly shown on bgp.he.net, they (Combathon) go to AS3320 (Deutsche Telekom) directly, at least from Frankfurt. Just tested with their cheapest prepaid VPS. This may be it 🥹

Sorry, what's wrong with going through AS3320?

I think he was meaning to say that this is good. "This may be it." (This may be what I've been looking for)

sgheghele · May 2023

@Ympker said:

@somik said:

@sgheghele said:
Although not explicitly shown on bgp.he.net, they (Combathon) go to AS3320 (Deutsche Telekom) directly, at least from Frankfurt. Just tested with their cheapest prepaid VPS. This may be it 🥹

Sorry, what's wrong with going through AS3320?

I think he was meaning to say that this is good. "This may be it." (This may be what I've been looking for)

Yes, I meant that I often have troubles finding hosting providers that have decent peering with AS3320/DTAG, which is my ISP. This one seems decent.

rubenmdh · May 2023

@Ympker said:

@rubenmdh said:

@root said:

@Ympker said:
Finland seems to have better uptime than Germany, so perhaps choose that one.

Finland and Germany... do they use Hetzner's datacentre?

I took the plunge and bought a "lifetime" dedi. They seem to use Combahton network (quite prem) at Germany. Will try to post more info about it tomorrow.

Can you give some feedback regarding the dedi? Which one did you get?

Sure thing, I will try to gather as much information as possible to do some in-depth review. It seems to be an HP ProLiant blade server and I've got iLO access... Should I post it here whenever I have it ready or maybe on a separate thread?
Anything you'd like me to test?

Model is Intel Xeon E5-2640v2 - 64 GB - 1x 500 GB.

Block Size	4k (IOPS)	64k (IOPS)
Read	2.91 MB/s (727)	3.32 MB/s (51)
Write	2.93 MB/s (732)	3.55 MB/s (55)
Total	5.84 MB/s (1.4k)	6.87 MB/s (106)

Block Size	512k (IOPS)	1m (IOPS)
------	--- ----	---- ----
Read	72.67 MB/s (141)	73.56 MB/s (71)
Write	76.53 MB/s (149)	78.46 MB/s (76)
Total	149.20 MB/s (290)	152.02 MB/s (147)

Block Size	4k (IOPS)	64k (IOPS)
Read	3.02 MB/s (756)	4.21 MB/s (65)
Write	3.04 MB/s (760)	4.46 MB/s (69)
Total	6.06 MB/s (1.5k)	8.68 MB/s (134)

Block Size	512k (IOPS)	1m (IOPS)
------	--- ----	---- ----
Read	25.55 MB/s (49)	35.20 MB/s (34)
Write	26.99 MB/s (52)	38.11 MB/s (37)
Total	52.55 MB/s (101)	73.32 MB/s (71)

ZAP-Hosting Lifetime Servers - Discussion, Updates

Comments

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):

fio Disk Speed Tests (Mixed R/W 50/50):