@Not_Oles said: @cmeerw Why install: libc.so.101.0: No such file or directory ?
Maybe you need to do a make first before you do the make install?
I thought that make install always did the make part first, before installing, and that the only reason to run make alone, first, was if you wanted to look through the output of the make before installing. Maybe my assumption is wrong. Let's see what happens if I just run make and then make install.
Thanks for your continuing helpful hints!
I will go try make by itself, first, then make install.
hlcs# pwd
/usr/src/lib/libcurses
hlcs# make
[ . . . ]
hlcs# make install
[ . . . ]
hlcs# cd /usr/src/lib/libcrypto
hlcs# make
[ . . . ]
hlcs# make install
[ . . . ]
hlcs# cd /usr/src/lib/libssl
hlcs# make
[ . . . ]
hlcs# make install
[ . . . ]
hlcs#
Now it looks maybe like I can go back to our plan, posted above, and try building a new kernel. Maybe first as ucvsu and then as root if the unprivileged build doesn't work.
Thanks for all the help @cmeerw! Thanks to @Hosteroid for our wonderful community server. Anybody else want to come aboard?
@Not_Oles said: I thought that make install always did the make part first, before installing, and that the only reason to run make alone, first, was if you wanted to look through the output of the make before installing. Maybe my assumption is wrong. Let's see what happens if I just run make and then make install.
Whether make install includes a compile step (e.g., plain make) seems to depend on the makefiles.
On hlcs, with OpenBSD-current, in /usr/src/lib/libc we have
Nowhere within the install chain is there a build step or a reference to all. Therefore, no compile takes place with make install.
I hear that it's typical in the BSD world to define the install target without building, whereas in the GNU/Linux world, it's common to see the install step including the all step.
So, if I am understanding the makefiles correctly, they explain why running make install on hlcs didn't include a build and why make install on Linux systems frequently does include a build (because, unlike BSD, all or another build target frequently is included in the Linux makefiles' definition of install).
hlcs$ date
Wed Jul 23 04:43:23 UTC 2025
hlcs$ cd /usr/src
hlcs$ make obj
hlcs$
Inside tmux:
hlcs# date
Wed Jul 23 04:46:47 UTC 2025
hlcs# pwd
/usr/src
hlcs# make -j 4 build
[ . . . ]
I might go to sleep before the build completes or fails. @cmeerw If you want to or need to, please feel free to hop inside the tmux session and do the needful.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our nice Community server! Anybody else want to join @cmeerw and me? Please read "How To Apply" in the OP.
I went to check the httpd setting in /etc/rc.conf before running sysmerge and was surprised to find that httpd already had been set to NO. I had been imagining that this change happened with sysmerge. But apparently the change happens earlier.
So what I did was follow the advice at the top of /etc/rc.conf to make rc.conf.local. Thus, we now have in /etc:
We already rebooted and seem to be running on a new kernel.
The userland build now is proceeding in a tmux session. @cmeerw If you want to or need to, please feel free to hop into the tmux session. Otherwise I will continue tomorrow.
BTW, I came from a different IP tonight.
I'm now going to sleep with @cmeerw's map of Europe in my mind. Yes, the map is still being served after the reboot.
How do you guys write the grep command in a shorter way, but with the same result? In other words, how do you get rid of the first call to grep showing in the output without needing to call grep a second time?
@cmeerw I'm thinking to clean up a little, get rid of etc-revert if it's still there, some extra backups in /etc/ssh/ and so on. Maybe something I might have dumped in the root directory. I will go ahead with this in a day or two, unless you ask me to wait.
@Not_Oles said: How do you guys write the grep command in a shorter way, but with the same result? In other words, how do you get rid of the first call to grep showing in the output without needing to call grep a second time?
I don't, I just ignore it myself - I am not sure there is a way other than using a script, shell function, or alias to do that.
@cmeerw I'm thinking to clean up a little, get rid of etc-revert if it's still there, some extra backups in /etc/ssh/ and so on. Maybe something I might have dumped in the root directory. I will go ahead with this in a day or two, unless you ask me to wait.
"Using a small trick can filter out the grep command itself: ps -ef | grep fo[o]. Look at the last symbol, instead of simple "o", we are using "[o]", which is considered a regular expression. This way the "grep foo" is not included in the results." Nikolay Ivanov Commented Jan 25, 2022 at 13:46
In the daze of yore I seem to remember seeing a solution on . . . was it comp.os.unix? I seem to remember the guy who posted being called a genius. But sadly, I don't remember the solution. I failed to find it on Google's Usenet archive.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for this nice server! Thanks to @cmeerw for lots of sysadmin and other help!
Does anybody else want to hop on? Please read "How To Apply" in the OP.
I haven't yet gone ahead and mentioned the availability of this server to any of the OpenBSD developers. I guess, if one or more of the OpenBSD developers wanted to join LES and hop aboard, that might be okay.
@Not_Oles said: I haven't yet gone ahead and mentioned the availability of this server to any of the OpenBSD developers. I guess, if one or more of the OpenBSD developers wanted to join LES and hop aboard, that might be okay.
Perhaps FreeBSD attracts many people, OpenBSD less, and NetBSD least of the three.
I'm not at all an expert, but, to me, NetBSD seems to offer simplicity, versatility, and a polite and welcoming community.
@cmeerw Does it seem too crazy to change hlcs to NetBSD and, if not many people here want to jump on, ask NetBSD people to join both LES and you and me on hlcs?
Would anyone here at LES want to join @cmeerw and me on hlcs if we reinstalled hlcs with some other OS? We have tried Debian and we have tried OpenBSD. Maybe there is another OS that would be magic? If we could get even two or three more people. . . .
Since hlcs is wide open inside, I prefer not to change the requirements from the How To Apply section of the OP.
"Every so often I think about random things, and today's random thing was how our environment might look if it was rebuilt from scratch as a modern style greenfield development. One of the obvious assumptions is that it'd involve a lot of use of containers, which led me to wondering how you handle traditional Unix style login servers. This is a relevant issue for us because we have such traditional login servers and somewhat to our surprise, they still see plenty of use." -- Chris Siebenmann, please see also https://lobste.rs/s/ktd0ss/people_still_use_our_old_fashioned_unix
Thanks to Hosteroid for our nice LES community server! <3 Really! <3 Thanks also to @cmeerw for helping so much!
@Not_Oles said: @cmeerw Does it seem too crazy to change hlcs to NetBSD and, if not many people here want to jump on, ask NetBSD people to join both LES and you and me on hlcs?
The only thing here is that I wasn't successful when I tried NetBSD on hlcs. But we can certainly try again.
@Not_Oles said: @cmeerw Does it seem too crazy to change hlcs to NetBSD and, if not many people here want to jump on, ask NetBSD people to join both LES and you and me on hlcs?
The only thing here is that I wasn't successful when I tried NetBSD on hlcs. But we can certainly try again.
What about just reinstalling NetBSD across the entire disk?
We still could go back to Debian or or OpenBSD or whatever else any time by wiping the NetBSD install.
Or maybe you know of another approach you want to try? Whatever you want is fine with me. Of I could try the NetBSD install if that's your preference. If you want to do it, okay to go ahead any time, without further notice.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our nice LES Community Server! Which might be about to get NetBSD!
@Not_Oles said: @cmeerw Does it seem too crazy to change hlcs to NetBSD and, if not many people here want to jump on, ask NetBSD people to join both LES and you and me on hlcs?
The only thing here is that I wasn't successful when I tried NetBSD on hlcs. But we can certainly try again.
I am going to briefly switch back to Debian to prepare for NetBSD.
Finally managed to get NetBSD installed. Main issue was that the keyboard didn't work in the IPMI console - it looks like NetBSD found a PC keyboard device and tried to only use that for the console, but the console viewer used a USB keyboard device to send the keystrokes ("American Megatrends Inc. (0x046b) Virtual Keyboard and Mouse (0xff10), rev 1.10/1.00, addr 2, iclass 3/1"). So I compiled a new kernel with the PC keyboard device disabled and tried again. This then resulted in a kernel panic in the ukbd_set_leds_task - that's just a small task to flash the keyboard leds. After disabling that, the keyboard started working. It was then just a matter of figuring out what the partition is named in NetBSD to set the correct root device (it's ld0g for the fourth primary partition).
BTW, I have incremented the port for sshd again, and copied the SSH authorized keys from OpenBSD.
NetBSD 11.0_BETA (GENERIC) #0: Fri Aug 8 16:37:51 UTC 2025
Welcome to NetBSD!
This is a beta release of NetBSD for testing.
Bug reports: https://www.NetBSD.org/support/send-pr.html
Donations to the NetBSD Foundation: https://www.NetBSD.org/donations/
We recommend that you create a non-root account and use su(1) for root access.
hlcs#
Wow - what a great deal. That's really awesome. Free shell accounts used to be really popular and all - but with new generation kind of died out. Glad to see someone still offering them
One thing I'd like to try is how NetBSD fares with tilemaker, but with most of the disk space already occupied by Debian and OpenBSD I'll need to get some more space for NetBSD. One option is to just mount the OpenBSD file system under NetBSD and use that, hoping it's actually really the same file system. It seems to work for light read-only usage, but not sure if it could corrupt the OpenBSD partition under heavy load. @Not_Oles okay with you to take that risk?
The purpose of the server is to have fun. So, yeah, sure, whatever you want.
As you certainly know, another option might be to remove the Debian and the OpenBSD installations and just go with NetBSD. But, however you want to proceed is fine with me.
After things settle down a little, no rush, I might want to start compiling NetBSD-current, if that would be okay with you. Maybe (probably!) you can show me a better method after I post how I am doing the compiling now. Also, I wonder about testing network performance and, if needed, optimizing network speed.
Comments
Seemed to work.
Now back to
make -j 4 installin each of@cmeerw Why
install: libc.so.101.0: No such file or directory?Maybe you need to do a
makefirst before you do themake install?I see that, previously installed, we have
and we are expecting libc.so.101.0.
I don't understand why libc.so.101.0 isn't waiting in /usr/src/lib/obj.
We still have
I thought that
make installalways did themakepart first, before installing, and that the only reason to runmakealone, first, was if you wanted to look through the output of themakebefore installing. Maybe my assumption is wrong. Let's see what happens if I just runmakeand thenmake install.Thanks for your continuing helpful hints!
I will go try
makeby itself, first, thenmake install.@cmeerw Yes! It worked to do
makeby itself, first, thenmake install.Next up are
makefollowed bymake installinNow it looks maybe like I can go back to our plan, posted above, and try building a new kernel. Maybe first as ucvsu and then as root if the unprivileged build doesn't work.
Thanks for all the help @cmeerw!
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our wonderful community server. 
Anybody else want to come aboard? 
Whether
make installincludes a compile step (e.g., plainmake) seems to depend on the makefiles.On hlcs, with OpenBSD-current, in
/usr/src/lib/libcwe haveThese two files include quite a few additional files, one of which is
/usr/share/mk/bsd.lib.mk, where we can see theinstalltarget defined:Nowhere within the install chain is there a build step or a reference to
all. Therefore, no compile takes place withmake install.I hear that it's typical in the BSD world to define the install target without building, whereas in the GNU/Linux world, it's common to see the
installstep including theallstep.So, if I am understanding the makefiles correctly, they explain why running
make installon hlcs didn't include a build and whymake installon Linux systems frequently does include a build (because, unlike BSD,allor another build target frequently is included in the Linux makefiles' definition ofinstall).Inside tmux:
I might go to sleep before the build completes or fails.
@cmeerw If you want to or need to, please feel free to hop inside the tmux session and do the needful. 
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our nice Community server!
Anybody else want to join @cmeerw and me? Please read "How To Apply" in the OP. 
Good morning! Looks like the build completed successfully.
More after breakfast. . . .
I went to check the httpd setting in
/etc/rc.confbefore running sysmerge and was surprised to find that httpd already had been set to NO. I had been imagining that this change happened with sysmerge. But apparently the change happens earlier.So what I did was follow the advice at the top of
/etc/rc.confto makerc.conf.local. Thus, we now have in/etc:Next, I ran
sysmergeand refreshed the devices.Now hoping to see what sysmerge changed in login.conf before rebooting. . . .
Here's the story on the change to
login.confby sysmerge. The change seems reminiscent of an issue we hit earlier in this thread.It seems okay to reboot, so
Last, but not least, I can see https://hlcs.cmeerw.net/europe/ ! Yaaay!!!
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our lovely LES Community Server!
Thanks to @cmeerw for awesome help! 
Anybody else want to join @cmeerw and @Not_Oles (me)? It's free! Please check "How To Apply" in the OP. Thanks again!
Good point - completely missed that!
hi @Not_Oles
long time no see
btw how are you, are you fine?
Hi @ExAjiMag! All good here! How are you?
i'm fine
@ExAjiMag What have you been doing recently?
managing my proxmox
Sounds good! Hope you have a good time with Proxmox!
@cmeerw @ExAjiMag
Hope you both are doing great!
I updated the sources and have been following the build steps at https://lowendspirit.com/discussion/comment/216000/#Comment_216000.
We already rebooted and seem to be running on a new kernel.
The userland build now is proceeding in a tmux session. @cmeerw If you want to or need to, please feel free to hop into the tmux session. Otherwise I will continue tomorrow.
BTW, I came from a different IP tonight.
I'm now going to sleep with @cmeerw's map of Europe in my mind. Yes, the map is still being served after the reboot.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our lovely server!
Best!
Tom
Good morning!
So here we have our fine Hosteroid Low End Spirit Free Community Server ("hlcs"). Thanks so much to @Hosteroid for the donation!
It would be great if a few more LESbianz wanted to join @cmeerw and me! Please review the How To Apply section of the OP!
hosting free vps on discord (node is mine, but not my hosting)
We ought to make a new thread for this, I guess?
What's the difference between the VPSes with 3 digit numbers and the VPSes with 8 digit numbers?
How come so many VPSes and only 2% CPU usage?
3 digits is proxmox and 8 digits is convoy
maybe
@ExAjiMag said:
TIL https://github.com/ConvoyPanel/panel
Okay, if you want to talk more, that's great. How about if you please start the new thread with a link to this post? Thanks!
@cmeerw root is running
make -j 4 buildnow in/usr/srcinsidetmux.Tom is going to be sleeping.
Zzzzz! 
Thanks to @Hosteroid for better sleep because of not worrying about the nice server's reliability!
Anybody want to join @cmeerw and me on OpenBSD-current? Love to have you!
Looks like the build successfully completed while I was sleeping!
Later today I will try running sysmerge and MAKEDEV and rebooting.
How do you guys write the grep command in a shorter way, but with the same result? In other words, how do you get rid of the first call to grep showing in the output without needing to call grep a second time?
@cmeerw I'm thinking to clean up a little, get rid of etc-revert if it's still there, some extra backups in /etc/ssh/ and so on. Maybe something I might have dumped in the root directory. I will go ahead with this in a day or two, unless you ask me to wait.
Thanks to @Hosteroid!
Anybody else want to hop on? Please check the How To Apply section in the OP.
Maybe there might be an OpenBSD developer who would want to join @cmeerw and me here?
I don't, I just ignore it myself - I am not sure there is a way other than using a script, shell function, or alias to do that.
Sure, go ahead whenever you have time.
In the daze of yore I seem to remember seeing a solution on . . . was it comp.os.unix? I seem to remember the guy who posted being called a genius. But sadly, I don't remember the solution. I failed to find it on Google's Usenet archive.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for this nice server!
Thanks to @cmeerw for lots of sysadmin and other help! 
Does anybody else want to hop on? Please read "How To Apply" in the OP.
I haven't yet gone ahead and mentioned the availability of this server to any of the OpenBSD developers. I guess, if one or more of the OpenBSD developers wanted to join LES and hop aboard, that might be okay.
If nobody comments, I will go ahead and ask.
Thanks everyone!
Perhaps FreeBSD attracts many people, OpenBSD less, and NetBSD least of the three.
I'm not at all an expert, but, to me, NetBSD seems to offer simplicity, versatility, and a polite and welcoming community.
@cmeerw Does it seem too crazy to change hlcs to NetBSD and, if not many people here want to jump on, ask NetBSD people to join both LES and you and me on hlcs?
Would anyone here at LES want to join @cmeerw and me on hlcs if we reinstalled hlcs with some other OS? We have tried Debian and we have tried OpenBSD. Maybe there is another OS that would be magic? If we could get even two or three more people. . . .
Since hlcs is wide open inside, I prefer not to change the requirements from the How To Apply section of the OP.
Thanks to Hosteroid for our nice LES community server! <3 Really! <3 Thanks also to @cmeerw for helping so much!
The only thing here is that I wasn't successful when I tried NetBSD on hlcs. But we can certainly try again.
Thanks @cmeerw!
Oh, yeah, I had forgotten, but now I reviewed https://lowendspirit.com/discussion/comment/214223/#Comment_214223.
What about just reinstalling NetBSD across the entire disk?
We still could go back to Debian or or OpenBSD or whatever else any time by wiping the NetBSD install.
Or maybe you know of another approach you want to try? Whatever you want is fine with me. Of I could try the NetBSD install if that's your preference. If you want to do it, okay to go ahead any time, without further notice.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for our nice LES Community Server!
Which might be about to get NetBSD! 
I can try again in the next few days to see if I have more luck this time.
Whenever you have time, no rush!
I am going to briefly switch back to Debian to prepare for NetBSD.
Finally managed to get NetBSD installed. Main issue was that the keyboard didn't work in the IPMI console - it looks like NetBSD found a PC keyboard device and tried to only use that for the console, but the console viewer used a USB keyboard device to send the keystrokes ("American Megatrends Inc. (0x046b) Virtual Keyboard and Mouse (0xff10), rev 1.10/1.00, addr 2, iclass 3/1"). So I compiled a new kernel with the PC keyboard device disabled and tried again. This then resulted in a kernel panic in the
ukbd_set_leds_task- that's just a small task to flash the keyboard leds. After disabling that, the keyboard started working. It was then just a matter of figuring out what the partition is named in NetBSD to set the correct root device (it'sld0gfor the fourth primary partition).BTW, I have incremented the port for sshd again, and copied the SSH authorized keys from OpenBSD.
Thanks to @Hosteroid for the lovely server.
@cmeerw Wow! Amazing! Awesome!
Does anyone here at LES want to join @cmeerw and me?
Thanks to @Hosteroid for hlcs!
Wow - what a great deal. That's really awesome. Free shell accounts used to be really popular and all - but with new generation kind of died out. Glad to see someone still offering them
One thing I'd like to try is how NetBSD fares with tilemaker, but with most of the disk space already occupied by Debian and OpenBSD I'll need to get some more space for NetBSD. One option is to just mount the OpenBSD file system under NetBSD and use that, hoping it's actually really the same file system. It seems to work for light read-only usage, but not sure if it could corrupt the OpenBSD partition under heavy load. @Not_Oles okay with you to take that risk?
@cmeerw
The purpose of the server is to have fun. So, yeah, sure, whatever you want.
As you certainly know, another option might be to remove the Debian and the OpenBSD installations and just go with NetBSD. But, however you want to proceed is fine with me.
After things settle down a little, no rush, I might want to start compiling NetBSD-current, if that would be okay with you. Maybe (probably!) you can show me a better method after I post how I am doing the compiling now. Also, I wonder about testing network performance and, if needed, optimizing network speed.
Best!
Tom
Thanks to Hosteroid for our lovely server!
Thanks to @cmeerw for awesome system administration!
Good point, I have actually already adjusted a few settings (mostly based on https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/tuning_netbsd_for_performance/)
NetBSD and Linux are running on some VPSes that I have at several providers.
With one provider, I noticed that the network seemed slower on one NetBSD install than on a comparable Linux install. I wondered why, even after I applied the optimizations at https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/tuning_netbsd_for_performance/ .
I haven't had a chance to look into this as much, as slowly, and as carefully as I would like.
To be clear, the NetBSD install works fine, it's just a little slower, and I expected it to be a little faster.
Most likely I made mistakes in the setup!
Tried that tilemaker job, and it ran fine,
time -lshowed:That looks pretty similar to what it took on Linux
Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?
Yes, just need to set up the web server part for that on NetBSD.
Excellent!