Moderating policy discussion

SystemSystem Administrator
This discussion was created from comments split from: Another special offer for LES! 2C/8GB/80GB/25TB@2G/1IPv4&1IPv6 at €9.99/year.
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Comments

  • Why this scammer tolerated here?

  • RapToNRapToN ProviderOG

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Because he is not a classic scammer.
    He just seems to offer such poor performance that most customers use the server for a month or two at most, so he can then sell more servers.

    Just my personal assessment.

  • carlin0carlin0 Retired

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Take a poll ?

    "How miserable life is in the abuses of power..."
    F. Battiato ---

  • @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Offering low cost services is not a scam, dear.

    LumanexAI: Our in-house AI model for free 🚀

  • @c1vhosting said:

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Offering low cost services is not a scam, dear.

    Lying, not keeping promises, seeking excuses over and over again, and pretending comes pretty close though, "dear".

    How many times have you been asked for proof of using a descent datacenter now? You even said pictures would be made - yes, not immideately because [lots and lots of excuses deleted]. But still, even quite a number of months later, no pictures have been seen.

  • edited July 2024

    @c1vhosting said:
    Offering low cost services is not a scam, dear.

    It's not important and I don't mind, but IMHO the claims of tier 3 DC, proprietary DC, largest DC in the region, world class network, etc reach beyond mere pompous advertisement when people still wonder if there is a DC at all. Check the definition of frode on Treccani:

    In diritto penale, il termine frode indica una serie di condotte caratterizzate da modalità elusive previste come reato dal codice o dalle leggi speciali; frode in commercio, delitto contro l’industria e il commercio commesso da chi, nell’esercizio di un’attività commerciale, o di un pubblico spaccio, consegna all’acquirente una cosa per un’altra, o che abbia comunque origine, provenienza, qualità o quantità diversa da quella dichiarata o pattuita

    If 95% of the people claim it is fraud, it may be a good idea to revise the claims in your ads.
    I'm not a dentist but that smile seems crooked :#

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Because we prefer to err to the side of leniency.
    It is low end. Many providers promise more than they deliver.

    LES is a community, with feedback and reviews, so I suppose people can see what they are getting into.

    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

  • cybertechcybertech OGBenchmark King YABS 24/7/365

    @bikegremlin said:

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Because we prefer to err to the side of leniency.
    It is low end. Many providers promise more than they deliver.

    LES is a community, with feedback and reviews, so I suppose people can see what they are getting into.

    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    fair enough, we as victims can all do our best to feedback 😌

    I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @cybertech said:

    @bikegremlin said:

    @legendary said:
    Why this scammer tolerated here?

    Because we prefer to err to the side of leniency.
    It is low end. Many providers promise more than they deliver.

    LES is a community, with feedback and reviews, so I suppose people can see what they are getting into.

    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    fair enough, we as victims can all do our best to feedback 😌

    It's best to check the reviews before buying:
    https://lowendspirit.com/categories/reviews

    Review for this particular provider:
    https://lowendspirit.com/discussion/7515/c1vhosting-review-not-recommended/p1

  • carlin0carlin0 Retired

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "How miserable life is in the abuses of power..."
    F. Battiato ---

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    Moved this to a separate topic.

  • May be create a poll to put an oficial line from where starts the Minimum requiered quality to be present here.

    I believe in good luck. Harder that I work ,luckier i get.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG
    edited July 2024

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    Maybe @Mason will chime in. It is a question I often get from providers when a provider tag is not approved. Answering it in detail could provide instructions on how to avoid any checks and get a provider tag even if a provider is a summer host (or an outright fraud).

    Briefly, generally: deadpool, summer host, frauds (as in taking the money and not providing any service) and similar is not allowed.
    Offering imperfect service quality, slow tech. support etc. often goes hand in hand and is a norm more than an exception in the bottom-price (low-end) sector.

    We could say that a little bit of shirt-pulling is tollerated, for as long as it's not excessive: :)

  • @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

  • edited July 2024

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    Personally I won't mind that people like C1V have a provider tag. As long as they are open and clear about what they offer and don't lie or make promises they don't keep.

    When I got a VPS from him, there was no mention about "low performance" or anything like that. He pretends to be a "big datacenter guy", but in the meanwhile only replies with "it's gonna be better".

    Look at the discussions about pictures of his so-called datacenter. Look at what happened during Christmas. After that, he promised to compensate customers for the bad service - didn't happen. Look how he's picking out the posts he reacts to. That all combined, I think, should not be tolerated.

    I don't mind bad performance, I don't mind having some downtime. But be honest, and show some knowledge, and treat every customer as someone you want to keep when people have been patient. He does neither.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @skorous said:

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

    Make what you want of it.
    Admins and mods act in good faith to the best of their ability.
    For free.

  • Not_OlesNot_Oles Provider

    @bikegremlin said:

    @skorous said:

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

    Make what you want of it.
    Admins and mods act in good faith to the best of their ability.
    For free.

    Thanks to @Mason and to @bikegremlin! Without you guys working hard for free we wouldn't have wonderful LES! <3

  • @Not_Oles said:

    @bikegremlin said:

    @skorous said:

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

    Make what you want of it.
    Admins and mods act in good faith to the best of their ability.
    For free.

    Thanks to @Mason and to @bikegremlin! Without you guys working hard for free we wouldn't have wonderful LES! <3

    Don't forget @Frankz even though he is vacationing

    The Yeti has left the building.

  • Not_OlesNot_Oles Provider
    edited July 2024

    @AuroraZero said: Don't forget @Frankz even though he is vacationing

    @FrankZ will never be forgotten! <3

    I have asked about @FrankZ several times, both in the Pit during and after the period when his return had been scheduled, and also via private messages. @FrankZ's profile still says that he will will be traveling "until sometime in April 2024." And it's July now. It seems so completely unlike @FrankZ not to do exactly what he said he would do. Maybe it seems oversensitive, but I really liked @FrankZ, so I passed through a period of mourning when he did not return as expected in April. I didn't mention @FrankZ because now I do sadly think he might really be gone, although I still hope not. Nevertheless, I remain positive about the excellent present and the great future of LES! <3

  • @bikegremlin said:

    @skorous said:

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

    Make what you want of it.
    Admins and mods act in good faith to the best of their ability.
    For free.

    In case you took offense somehow, I'm (mis)quoting an American supreme court justice in your defense. We don't always agree but I'm with you on this one.

  • edited July 2024

    @Not_Oles your from Mexico and you can find anyone in Mexico.
    why not ask one of your boys to check?

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @skorous said:

    @bikegremlin said:

    @skorous said:

    @carlin0 said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    There is a line, but as far as I can tell, the provider hasn't crossed it.

    Just out of curiosity: the line would be ?

    "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of scammers, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the provider involved in this case is not that." -- @bikegremlin

    Make what you want of it.
    Admins and mods act in good faith to the best of their ability.
    For free.

    In case you took offense somehow, I'm (mis)quoting an American supreme court justice in your defense. We don't always agree but I'm with you on this one.

    No offence taken - just adding a further explanation for anyone who may see it differently or disagree with particular moderating policies or decisions.

  • AlwaysSkintAlwaysSkint OG RETIRED

    @ehab said: ..your from..

    you're from
    ;)

    In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
    Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
    It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).

  • @AlwaysSkint said:

    @ehab said: ..your from..

    you're from
    ;)

  • cybertechcybertech OGBenchmark King YABS 24/7/365
    edited July 2024

    im just going to add my 2c what should be taken into consideration of whether a provider should be allowed to post offers freely without addressing their previous faults:

    blatant misrepresentation

    I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.

  • @ehab said:

    @AlwaysSkint said:

    @ehab said: ..your from..

    you're from
    ;)

    Dial <3456> for emergency crane rescue services

  • imagine my shock this thread is about c*vhosting

    @Calypso said: I don't mind bad performance, I don't mind having some downtime. But be honest, and show some knowledge, and treat every customer as someone you want to keep when people have been patient. He does neither.

    maybe it'll get better in two more weeks

    @Chievo said:
    May be create a poll to put an oficial line from where starts the Minimum requiered quality to be present here.

    +1 on this one. would it be hard to be reasonable? (being we're in the low end market).
    while I do understand c*vhosting server is providing HDD, so i will get HDD performance, compared to ramnode I'm not even once get the red line of embarassing iowait in their massive kvm(hdd) vps, let alone CPU steal.

    the mod bikegremlin can be already seen and implied as "we will still allowing them here teehee!", so it's up to the community if they want some minimum standard or some clearance / honesty (which will never happens knowing it's c*vhosting, using the record how they behave up until now).

    even if we're in low-end market, it's still reasonable if you want some sort of standard on your minimum expectation. the moderator here has no saying "waaaahhhhh because it's low-end you have to expect more than worse waaahhhhh", if this only happens in one provider, would that means the market is wrong..or just this one provider is problematic?

    I sincerely hope the admin/moderator team still has their humanity stay intact, I want LES to be better than OGF afterall. There's one time I ever saw a mod on OGF is defending a scammer without putting consideration about how the victim would feel about their loses, and when they got called out of it they just gone silent. so I really hope the admin/mod forum here never had a stupid display like that.

    Fuck this 24/7 internet spew of trivia and celebrity bullshit.

  • How many pages do you think there are here of people talking about their erratic/poor performance? In how many different threads? If a "victim" can't find the knowledge they need to make an informed decision then they can't have actually looked in which case are they really a victim of anyone other than themselves?

  • @Encoders said:
    the mod bikegremlin can be already seen and implied as "we will still allowing them here teehee!"

    It's OK to ride a bike without the handlebar, as long as you have good balancing.
    It's OK to sell a VPS out of a garage, as long as you have thick face.

    We accept Karma donations for the last flan. 🍮 affbrr

  • AlwaysSkintAlwaysSkint OG RETIRED
    edited July 2024

    Rearrange into a common phrase:
    "a barge pole with wouldn't touch"
    From day one, I could see the mettle of a particular 'provider'. It was obvious by the questions they asked, IIRC.

    In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
    Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
    It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).

  • I see a problem if those warnings from the community about the service vanish from the offer thread, as they are directly connected to the sales made over that forum.
    But it's not like this is the first time I'm saying it, so... whatever.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    Some people want to be protected from themselves, others want more freedom.
    Can't please them all (not even Jesus could do that, apparently).

    My thinking out loud:

    LES is a buyer beware market. Always has been.
    There is community feedback - reviews, discussions etc.

    A problem with high quality standards is that they are inherently exclusive.
    I'm all for that - even suggested rising the maximum price limit hoping it would help see more high quality offers.

    Of course, we could enforce stricter vetting (regardless of the max. price point), but there is a point past which it becomes impossible to satisfy very strict criteria (you can't reasonably expect top-class service at too low prices, so some compromise is innevitable - unless it's a pump n' dump / deadpool / summer host scheme).

    With all that considered - it still up to the community to decide. But you can't have your cake and eat it. Stricter provider vetting, or more offers?
    We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.

    Regarding the offer thread cleanup:
    I have no interest whatsoever in helping any provider make more or fewer sales. It's just my judgement of what's good, informative, and acceptable vs what could be regarded as provider bashing. It's never going to be perfect nor please everybody (it is also worth noting that even "bad" comments still keep a thread on top for any new visitors as far as I know, and we all know the mantra of "there is no bad advertisment").

  • @bikegremlin said: We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.

    Perfect, LES should reflect the world we live in. No one even vets the things you buy IRL so why should the mods and admins do the work for you here?

    The Yeti has left the building.

  • @bikegremlin said:

    LES is a buyer beware market. Always has been.

    Inclined to agree. It's to some extent self-regulating. If a provider wants to launch straight into the bottom end of the market and develop a rep accordingly so be it.

    I doubt many are buying high end plans off this provider after how the specials went.

    Poor uptime and overprovisioning is far more problematic for me than deadpools. i.e. pay 12 months and get 3 out of it. Ideally would have neither but to me the one is fraud while the other is more like a bad product, so not quite the same qualitatively in my eyes.

  • Enabling bogus behavior does lead to evolution of malice via over-tolerance. Do not support bad behavior. Minimum standard exists for a reason. c1v is beyond bottom and should be picked up like dog shit in the garden. To keep everything nice and tidy.

    "Buyer beware" goes for the blokes buying service from purple daddy and knowing that he is convicted fraudster.

  • carlin0carlin0 Retired

    @AuroraZero said:

    @bikegremlin said: We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.

    Perfect, LES should reflect the world we live in. No one even vets the things you buy IRL so why should the mods and admins do the work for you here?

    Because they are the ones who give the " provider" tag

    "How miserable life is in the abuses of power..."
    F. Battiato ---

  • @carlin0 said:

    @AuroraZero said:

    @bikegremlin said: We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.

    Perfect, LES should reflect the world we live in. No one even vets the things you buy IRL so why should the mods and admins do the work for you here?

    Because they are the ones who give the " provider" tag

    Govt gives business licenses yet they are not required to vet beyond reasonable means.

    The Yeti has left the building.

  • @havoc said:
    Poor uptime and overprovisioning is far more problematic for me than deadpools.

    Whoops that should read LESS not more

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    Regarding the latest events:

    On the biggest cycling forum in my native, there is a member who posts loads of funny videos (in two separate threads/sections for the non-cycling-related, and the cycling-related), interesting articles (same, two sections), and similar. Daily. It seems to annoy many members, but it is in the appropriate forum sections.

    The main difference is that the same member often posts very good replies for any technical questions, buying help/tips etc - helping countless other members.

    In this case, it seems a bit one-sided on that account. However, it is fair to note that more than half the posts were technically legit industry-related news.

    Note:
    LESbian flags and reports are very, very helpful.
    Even when no one acts upon them immediately, we keep an eye on the "offenders" and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.
    Banning folks is what we don't take likely, but sometimes it is necessary.

  • @bikegremlin said: and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.

    Extreme left will be the reason of this forum demise. Sad. You see spammer = you remove spammer. No thinking, no excuses. Keep operations clean and tight. Spammers feel no regret, no remorse. They spam and eventually scam.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @legendary said:

    @bikegremlin said: and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.

    Extreme left will be the reason of this forum demise. Sad. You see spammer = you remove spammer. No thinking, no excuses. Keep operations clean and tight. Spammers feel no regret, no remorse. They spam and eventually scam.

    Extreme?
    No firing squads, no re-education centres... c'mon!
    It's not even left, not really - far from the extreme.
    :)

    IMO, trigger-happy mods are just as bad as the idle ones.

    Also, what you can see in the forum's front end is just the tip of the iceberg.
    There is a lot of cleaning being done on a daily basis.

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @vyas said:
    Why is this post allowed and my very informative post about Datacenter Industry in Phillipines deleted?
    Just because the OP is a web host?
    Very unfair ... I call this double standards.
    I used to be a content writer/ contributor fur fact's sake.

    If you think this is spam (and it is my understanding that you do), why are you doing the same?
    I've just moved several threads to the mod dump.

  • vyasvyas OG
    edited July 2024

    What I perceive and what I publish are mutually exclusive. Did I report this post as spam? Did anyone report my post as spam? Have a nice day.
    @Mason,
    this needs deliberation.

    I have no axe to grind with any mods personally, but this is ad hoc. And I call out the Mods for being deliberate, capricious and unjust. Just because another poster is a host, gets preferential treatment, LES turning into a gratis LET now?

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @vyas said:
    What I perceive and what I publish are mutually exclusive. Did I report this post as spam? Did anyone report my post as spam?
    @Mason,
    this needs deliberation.

    I have no axe to grind with any mods personally, but this is ad hoc. And I call out the Mods for being deliberate, capricious and unjust. Just because another poster is a host, gets preferential treatment, LES turning into a gratis LET now?

    Fair enough.
    I'll hang up my mod boots by Monday (to allow the time for other mods/admins) to take over or find replacements (one not excluding the other, of course).

  • vyasvyas OG
    edited July 2024

    No my friend, you are doing a fine job, tough as it is- to be fair the issue is implementation of the rules, do reconsider, I will stop here now. We are a small community, we may squabble occasionally ( and we should, keeps the "Spirit" high).
    I am retaining my previous messages- reflection of what I felt about the issue, not the person. That was my intent. I leave it at that.
    Best regards,

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG

    @vyas said:
    No my friend, you are doing a fine job,

    Doesn't look like it - LOL.
    :)

    No hard feelings, but I think resignation is a proper ethical act, when the community you serve is not happy with the job you're doing.

  • @bikegremlin said:

    @vyas said:
    No my friend, you are doing a fine job,

    Doesn't look like it - LOL.
    :)

    No hard feelings, but I think resignation is a proper ethical act, when the community you serve is not happy with the job you're doing.

    meh you are not going anyway Mr.Bikegremlin ;) You have the power and the community is nice working. Please,reconsider your idea asap .Thanks !

    I believe in good luck. Harder that I work ,luckier i get.

  • @bikegremlin said:

    @vyas said:
    No my friend, you are doing a fine job,

    Doesn't look like it - LOL.
    :)

    to be continued over Raksi .

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