Double bandwidth offers - Yay or Nay?
bikegremlin
ModeratorOG
in General
What do LESbians think about this?
Should we allow the "double bandwidth" offers?
Double bandwidth offers question
- Should we allow the "double bandwidth" offers?108 votes
- No, forbid that.52.78%
- Allow, but immediately start sinking the thread preventing bumps.30.56%
- Allow, and keep as-is (purple rain).16.67%
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Double measure x 8cm , Please.
I believe in good luck. Harder that I work ,luckier i get.
Only Double Cores or RAM. No Double Bandwidth.
That too, for posting order numbers, not any "pointless" word or string of words.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?I think it would be better to post that via a ticket in the provider's support portal, instead of spamming the forum. Even if it's just an order number.
The offer discussions should be used to ask and answer questions regarding the offers.
And, ideally, not have the questions & answers stuck between page 47 and 49 of "order N0 xxxxx double my bandwidth."
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i Agree with you compltely and absolutely.It is useless and should beavoided
I believe in good luck. Harder that I work ,luckier i get.
Double bandwidth is stupid.
My opinion: a big NO! Double bandwidth bumping should not be allowed, simply because it can be added in the offer posting (onto the existing bandwidth).
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To clarify - the "double bandwidth" referrs to any similar marketing: "post in the thread to get XXX," "most comments to get YYY" and similar.
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Such things are just forum spam to me, I stop reading threads which do that because the signal-to-noise ratio is so bad.
17 votes
No, forbid that. 52.94%
Allow, but immediately start sinking the thread preventing bumps. 23.53%
Allow, and keep as-is (purple rain). 23.53%
Can we make votes public?!
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
The only reason where I would somewhat agree with spam is for giveaways which can not be included in offer, for example if a provider wants to giveaway a Raspberry Pi 5 in aluminum case, or some Tesla car; but even then it would have to be a reasonable limit in spam, like spamming every few minutes with different content to keep users engaged for a few days, or the giveaway to last for just a couple of days if participants have to spam the same line over and over again.
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Double cpu, double ram, double whatever...
"How miserable life is in the abuses of power..."
F. Battiato ---
Are there other non-spammy ways to give giveaways?
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Yes, require some efforts, such as 25 push-ups for a backpack.
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Yes, there are. Each user posts one time and each gets one chance. This would be considered as not spammy, but also the thread might not stick onto the frontpage due to lack of constant bumps.
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What's the penalty of a user (intentionally or unintentionally) posts two replies?
They still get one chance, but they bumped the thread more than once.
I'd recommend start sinking after several days, not immediately.
The number of days shall be less than offer interval.
It's 7 days between offers, so sinking starts on 4th day.
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I do not agree with sinking. Reviews and complaints on a specific offer should bump the thread into front page. We all like popcorn drama as well as benchmarks.
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reminds me of a shit version of a matrix screensaver
The idea is fucking genius right, whatever the person smoked that day.
Its like I got an idea Johnny, we cut the bandwidth in half and let people post the order number, so they can get what we would have given them before. Also our thread stays longer on top.
Billoh: slaps table
@bikegremlin seriously?
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Maybe we should create a Reviews category so there's an official place for people to do that kind of thing?
Imho. that's going too far.
It's just a forum and clients' comments or expressed experience with the service under someone's offer even if that's a warning should not be a problem as it's COMPLETELY relevant and related to the host in question.
"That's a thread where XY sells a service but you're not allowed to comment your experience with XY host in this thread" is beyond stupid and beats the purpose of a forum.
That's the old WHT mentality and also the reason why some people prefer less uniform LET and LES above WHT.
As far as I understand, feedback should be posted under the Reviews section, not in the offer threads.
Offer threads are reserved for the offer-related questions and answers.
We've already established that.
Regarding this poll, the question is whether the "thread-bumping marketing" should be officialy forbidden.
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Yes, few of you did that and it sucks. As we need anoter WHT...
There's absolutely no reason why as an example legit warning about something should not be posted under specific offers thread. Sales were never just sales and people actually participated in those threads. Except on WHT. And now... lets make it just about sales. God forbid any warning or something about service. It needs to be separated and it needs to be buried away from the ongoing relevant thread.
I disagree.
There are hardly any providers that have zero unsatisfied customers, and offer threads are not a place to bash on the given offers.
Especially since it tends to get out of hand, so to speak.
For any serious problems or frauds - provider tag is removed so no offers can be made in the first place.
For the rest - the Review section should do.
WHT and LET are two extremes. As far as I can tell, LES is a reasonable middle ground between the two.
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It was before "legit negative review or expressed opinion = bashing" Franks mentality took over this forum. This what you call bashing is often no more or less completely legit comment of community members related to the ongoing offer.
Emphasis on related to the offer. Imho. we're establishing some hard core WHT-like extreme exactly here. 'Cuz like said - God forbid any warning or something about the experience with the service. It needs to be separated and it needs to be buried away from the ongoing relevant thread.
I honestly believe that this is not okay and it puts sales interest above community interests, but that's not Amazon. It's not just marketplace, but forum. Heck even at Amazon you can read people's experience within the sale offer.
Anyway, to stay on topic, I vote for nay, because there's absolutely no other reason for double bandwidth gimmick than bumping the thread up all the time even when people have nothing to say.
I agree with @root who said "Reviews and complaints on a specific offer should bump the thread into the front page." - because it should be fine for the thread to get bumped when people have actually something to say regarding the posted offer. This is what forums are about...
I'm quoting this again to clarify my point that sinking a thread isn't the death of popcorn drama. Just do it in the Reviews category and it stays as it is now.
Well I believe we've also said that legit questions are still allowed. "Are you still having problems with the network going down once a week?", "Have you upgraded the bandwidth yet or is it still oversold 500%", "The average steal when I was there was 20%. Is that still common?", etc... right? What you're trying to avoid is fifty angry MJJs who violated the AUP and got banned pissing in a provider thread with "This provider sucks!", correct?
Except that there's a difference between actually providing a review/feedback (that may be positive or negative) with some substance VS. just bashing the provider without proof... or worse, repeating the same thing over and over in every single thread.
Of course, all those examples are perfectly fine. I don't personally view any of that as bashing a provider.
Exactly.
yabs daddy
I don't think so. I saw some time ago a comment of some legit oldtimer (need to dig to find his name) asking why his comment was removed, that he just commented service offered in the thread.
And that made me think if shun down everything from the sales thread is really a proper way to go.
That was not the case from some recent experiences. If that's okay I have no objection.
Ultimately, this will always be a touchy and subjective area. What is deemed as "bashing" for you may not align with my view. And how I view it may not align with other staff members. Will we make mistakes on occasion? Absolutely. But that's an acceptable risk in my book so that threads don't devolve into useless nonsense that plague certain other sites.
yabs daddy
double bandwidth no
double ram/cpu/disk yes
I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.
But why? It would bring just a ton of spam without any pleasure to go through the thread. Even if there are some vital service-related posts they get buried under tons of "please double ..." zero-value comments. Imho. threads like that devaluate forum quality.
I think it's fair to add this (to be taken as: "from my point of view" or "as far as I know"):
We all want to see offers here, good ones.
For that to happen, providers should be happy to post them.
We also want to hear community feedback and reviews.
I think we all agree on that (correct me if I'm wrong).
Where we seem to disagree to a degree (it rhymes LOL
) is about whether the feedback should be posted in the offer threads.
In practice:
When there is something I see as (borderline) bashing in a thread, I check if the provider is OK with that. They often are, for most feedback. In that case, the feedback stays.
In case a provider is not happy (on very few occasions providers would complain themselves first about the bashing), then if it looks like bashing, it gets (re)moved.
It's a thin line, sometimes with hard calls and different opinions, and neither WHT nor LET extremes are a good example.
I've grown to like and care about his place, but as far as moderation goes: apart from trying to lead by example (for better or for worse
), I do my best to "enforce" the general rules and forum spirit. And I usually double-check with other admins/mods when in doubt. There is no way to make everyone happy. The best I can do is try to be fair and consistent.
That's why I started this poll - the fact I don't like the "thread-bump-marketing" (find it spammy to say the least), doesn't necessarily mean that most LESbians think the same. It's better to check and simply ask. While I can argue my point of view, once the decisions and rules are made, I must "enforce" them as they are.
Relja
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I understand your point, but there should be also some common sense regarding the offers in the sense that are not here for charity but to do business. Balance where we would not put business above ordinary forum member's word if you understand what I mean.
We are here to discuss hosts, to share experiences about hosts, to praise, to warn ... to build a community where sales are an extension of that and not the other way around.
I completely agree with what @Mason above said about "Except that there's a difference between actually providing a review/feedback vs army of angry MJJs who violated the AUP and got banned pissing in a provider thread" and the former is what I, as a reader, still want to read in relevant offer thread instead of being removed at sight.
As long that's not just a business, and I believe LES isn't just a business, things @skorous stated above are crucial part of the offer threads I believe because otherwise you can as well lock them after the initial post. Balance where every feedback, even if negative, about service isn't considered as bashing. We also praise hosts in their sales thread, don't we?
Double bandwidth does not double YABS score, unless you double port speed too.
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Personally, posting an invoice number/order is a no-go in our point of view, as that blows away the privacy, not to mention if your billing software gets hacked, then it is easy to associate the person on forum(s) with the declared names in that billing software.
Showing invoice numbers from many users do provide some "security/assurance" that the provider/product is good that is also true-ish at some extent.
If a sales thread is empty, some might think that the offer is dead or the one selling or product is not worthy, that is also true. This is a case for new comers usually ( us included ), but even then that does not mean that there is no sale.
As I know, enlighten me if I am wrong, visits on the thread do keep it up on the forum. So if the offer is good enough, it will stay visible in that case.
Yah it sucks when your sales thread goes down in 3 days, but hey, this is life, own it for god's sake.
As for the double the "DD's" if you post, well here we have a different point of view.
Either you make an offer from start or not. I get that it looks cool in the tread name, it's catchy, but just be direct from the start, i personally value that more, but that is me/us.
I as a provider can use other metrics to encourage sales, limited time offer, all purchases made in the first 48 ours get 2 x downtime for example
if we really like the 2 x whatever....
Fact is that people like interaction, in that case, just post a thx got one, nice offer, a joke, funny gif, etc.. just not sensitive data that can identify you later.
EDIT:
There is something that bothers my eyes more than double the chicken, "post that X is the best on Y forum" I mean com'on, what are you , like 14?
Double bandwidth offers - Nay
Host-C | Storage by Design | AS211462
“If it can’t guarantee behavior under load, it doesn’t belong in production.”
^^This!
Maybe there are benefits to the "comment to double or to win" offers, but, overall, I vote that LES is better without them.
Thanks to @bikegremlin for posting this thread so that we all can participate in the discussion and the decision!
Best wishes!
Spam: No, flat out disallow it. I'm out of ideas of on that front anyways
What I'd like to do/see: hosts finding a way to do something actually engaging. If I'm being honest I think this is where LES has a 'leg-up' over OGF, and when we're talking SEO/attracting organic newcomers you'll do better to have true natural conversations and threads. The post-bump spam is just a symptom of a deeper structural issue. I suppose you could also allow it and then 'sink threads' but that feels like a lot of manual work and/or potential avenue for abuse if automated.
What I'd like to be able to start doing is have an offer thread about something 'new' we're doing, and maybe a little mini-"blog" or insight as to what the hardware is, some photos of what we assembled, discussion as to why (from a provider perspective on re: tech and business/financial decisions), etc but not be punished for it. That is likely possible as-is here given that you don't have as much of a spam issue/culture around it, but probably not a bad idea to codify moving forward.
From a provider POV: I'd definitely be okay with something along these lines @bikegremlin, and I think it would help keeps hosts on their toes in a healthy way. However I also fully agree (and wouldn't want) my offer threads turning into a circus because an MJJ that charged back on us and has severe multiple personality disorder issues loses his mind and creates 4-6 threads in an hour and spams onto every existing thread I have, repeatedly. A pointed review about the services on offer is absolutely fair game, angry MJJ actions or personal vendetta tier stuff needs its own thread (where proof and an attempt to reply to accusations is possible).
I don't think you want to cultivate a culture that veers too far in either direction: whether it's the strangeness surrounding a certain OGF+Provider protected relationship or a spot where hosts just have every last thing torn apart by people attempting to force drama/be pedantic. It would get old, and I think a lot of hosts just wouldn't bother continuing. I still think users should have the ability to pitchfork a bad actor out of town, though.
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please double my wife 🤠
Hi @Ganonk -- took care of this
Thank You again for growing your wife with us!
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This exactly, it offers absolutely zero value to members of the forum and that's how I'd treat it - they'd just offer a coupon if they want to make the offer. It's low tier marketing manipulation of a thread to boost themselves.
double bandwidth no
double price/ram/cpu/disk/push-ups yes
IMO no spam, or mayyyybe the 'let it sink' option. But LES needs to be about quality, not quantity. That plus a lot fewer assholes is what makes this place awesome
Personally, I hate the FOMO feeling that those threads create (especially the "top post count wins a prize!" type ones). FOMO ends up just making most people feel bad, and can foster a negative feedback loop. Flash sales on holidays are one thing because at least you can predict when those will happen, but the top post count ones, those are really just rewarding whoever has a life/job/lack of either/ideal timezone more than they do real participation.
But things like posting a specific theme, like asking for a picture of your keyboard, or whatever, or telling about your "first experience with XYZ" or whatever more-clever-than-what-I-can-think-of ideas, that's better.
Also, big big thank you to those who mentioned the privacy concerns about linking a forum name to a provider account via invoice orders. That has been a big concern of mine and I haven't said anything about it, but I also stop and wonder if it will somehow come back to bite me if I post the "wrong thing" about a provider I currently use.
I’m somewhat less fussed on the invoice to get double bandwidth given it’s usually a post or two a person. Definitely however don’t like the “most posts win” or any sort of lottery where posting more increases the odds of winning something.
I do think using the sellers ticket system makes more sense but, and as an end user I appreciate it’s traceable and I’m not left wondering if a post will be missed or not.
In my opinion, the "double bandwidth" trick is exactly the same as influencers buying views from a click farm. It's a way to manipulate the figures to look more interesting than you actually are. Just like influencers that cant get enough attention, providers buy posts from their mindless drones and pay them with double bandwidth. It costs the provider nothing and the drones think they earned something.
I don't mind the occasional giveaway or things like that, but the "just post something" threads are just trash, it floods the forum with pure garbage. The actual post that maybe says something interesting about an offer might be found on page 38 of 55, while every other page is just "dbl bw plz" repeated in absurdum. I am not a fan.
So my question is this. If this is the only way to stay relevant at the OGF, do you prefer a provider to not post a double bandwidth offer here and therefore leave the members here worse off?
There’s no need to do it here for the offer to stay at the top; On the OGF you need to do it, else your thread doesn’t get the exposure that others - that do it - get.
We do this offer here in order to not put members of LES at disadvantage.
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just already include double (or maybe triple?) bandwidth for members here, or alternatively mention in the offer here that double bandwidth can be requested by raising a ticket (and if someone posts a comment here to double bandwidth, it gets halved instead).
Theres no way a provider will create dedicated packages to one forum. Most certainly nobody wants additional ticket load. You can’t have it both ways.
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Can a provider practically sell "half the bandwidth" on LES?
Yes.
My grandmother used to say this when I was a kid (usually when I did something stupid
), and it took years to really understand the meaning:
"Everything you do, you do it to yourself."
My thoughts about discounts, bargaining and doing business in general (related to bike-service, but 100% applicable to hosting, freelancer deals and other stuff too): "Ask for better, not for cheaper" (if this doesn't get me banned on LES, nothing will!
)
Relja
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@Clouvider
Please do not take it the wrong way, take this as a different opinion/approach.
Giving double the chicken is a marketing tool, today pushed by the majority of sellers. Just do the offer straight up with the included Bandwidth and be done with it.
I know that this might have some complications in setting up the services in the billing software, other than that I see no problem in it.
For example, we try to do different promos on each forum, it takes more time to prepare them, but at least my team get's to be familiar with the promo system.
It is not about the BW, CPU or RAM, but if you look at a sales thread, it looks like INV XXXX, YYY, XYZ.
I would rather see funny gif pics, or have some come after me with pitchforks ( in the funniest way possible
). Truth is it looks dull, not even like a "bazar" sale.
Or this is the new standard, and some like us just do not get it?
EDIT:
100% true
Host-C | Storage by Design | AS211462
“If it can’t guarantee behavior under load, it doesn’t belong in production.”
Our bandwidth package listed on the website is what we offer in general; we have a special that goes on these forums that is not offered through other mediums.
Question I asked is very much valid - we don’t mind not posting it here, if that’s the wish of the community.
It won’t magically increase the very generous package we already offer on our website. It will just put people ordering through here at a disadvantage, if that’s the wish of the community.
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so cute 😹
I think it could be done easily enough if you got creative. Use a separate coupon code on LES (or for general non-spam forum offers) and just have standing rule to double bandwidth when that coupon code is used? No tickets needed, no forum spam needed. Just once per day someone checks those coupons and applies it, no more/less work than tracking down invoice numbers or whatever else. Would be easy enough to even automate based on coupon code depending on billing software.
Pitchforks would come out. Low end detectives know when I am hungry before even I do.
There is a lot of truth here. Especially in dedicated servers. We've had a few customers figure this out.
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