The flood of new members, little help please?

AnthonySmith

I have temporarily lowered the thresholds to 5 upvotes for new membership or -5 for removal.

I have also set it so that anyone with +7 karma can up/downvote new members.

We have had a flood due to the crazy offer from @ShockHosting Thanks, its a good problem to have I suppose.

Ultimately, the offer will not be seen by anyone in the "New members" group; this is deliberate to make sure we don't just get a ton of offer/telegram bots so the new member gate is doing its job, it is just not ideal at this scale right now.

While I figure something else out, and while these new members curse themselves for ignoring LES and posting anime memes on LET if you could help out by up/down voting those that you think are human in the new members section, that would be appreciated.

If we don't have the manpower or willpower to blast through these, I will have to solo it with admin powers, which I will do later tonight if any are still hovering in no man's land.

I will appreciate this by giving hosts LES ad revenue to post more of these offers or similar ones or underwriting other services so we get more offers like this (This one was totally on Shock Hosting, though)

Thanks!

AnthonySmith

You now also get/earn a karma point for every post you up/down vote in the new members section, while that post is active and requiring a decision; votes after will not give you a karma point.

yoursunny

@AnthonySmith said:
You now also get/earn a karma point for every post you up/down vote in the new members section, while that post is active and requiring a decision; votes after will not give you a karma point.

If we place the 1st upvote on a new member and then undo the upvote, does the free karma get revoked upon undoing?

If we place the 7th upvote to approve a new member, and then undo the upvote, the new member stays approved.
Does the free karma get revoked upon undoing?

AnthonySmith

sorry sorry, NOW you get the extra karma point (did not flush cache).

@yoursunny said: If we place the 1st upvote on a new member and then undo the upvote, does the free karma get revoked upon undoing?

No it does not get revoked but you dont get more by voting again, so if you want to be unhelpful for a few days and get a few extra points to spend on flan badges... go for it.

@yoursunny said: If we place the 7th upvote to approve a new member, and then undo the upvote, the new member stays approved.

they stay a member, there are no takesies backsies once promoted.

@yoursunny said: Does the free karma get revoked upon undoing?

No.

Thanks for your invaluable input as always.

Docker_dude

I don't think all of them are bots, how ever I noticed this to there are many new members waiting for aproval

Chievo

@AnthonySmith send them to les discord les bots?

davide

You could throttle the requests per minute for users pending approval if botting or server performance is the concern, and give them full access under quota.

ascicode

@Docker_dude said:
I don't think all of them are bots, how ever I noticed this to there are many new members waiting for aproval

Every 2 minutes or in same minute is mostly a bot, unless the server had hiccups.

barbaros

Give them all new status called MJJ, at least they will be recognizable out in public.

phart

I need 3 more karma before I can farm karma from downvoting bots

Jab

Just downvote everyone typing proper sentences. With dots. Capital letters, commas and other things. You know, no one in China types like that.
And whenever you see 'enthusiasts' or developer. So many of those these days it's amazing.

nullnothere

I'm really easy to fool it seems. I've now gotten a little smarter. But it looks like I'm still no match for AI and their ilk.

Docker_dude

@phart said:
I need 3 more karma before I can farm karma from downvoting bots

I need only 1, got something from the karma store

Docker_dude

We need also to consider that there are some of them using AI just for translation, just saying

nullnothere

If the new signups are from Nodeseek, is there a way to verify/vet or otherwise get some details about their Nodeseek username and will that help promote membership here (in terms of good contributors)?

Any regular LES+Nodeseek users have ideas/thoughts on how to leverage some good Karma from NS as a useful filter for membership here?

terrorgen

@Docker_dude said:
We need also to consider that there are some of them using AI just for translation, just saying

Human makes mistakes and that is okay.

Unless your upbringing told you to never make mistakes and you get out of your way to not make mistakes.

MichaelCee

Finding it a little hard to differentiate who's using AI to translate and who is AI. The whole "I discovered LowEndSpirit whilst searching online for ..." is a bit sus but could also be the equivalent of somebody trying to fluff their CV (resume) up

davide

Today I re-read I bash script that I last touched 10 years ago and it looked 100% LLM fluff.

They must have learned from somewhere :(

sumo

@Jab said:
Just downvote everyone typing proper sentences. With dots. Capital letters, commas and other things.

Forget the lessons from elementary school?

imok

What’s the deal with those "700" responses?

sumo

@AnthonySmith said:
I have temporarily lowered the thresholds to 5 upvotes for new membership or -5 for removal.

I have also set it so that anyone with +7 karma can up/downvote new members.

We have had a flood due to the crazy offer from @ShockHosting Thanks, its a good problem to have I suppose.

Ultimately, the offer will not be seen by anyone in the "New members" group; this is deliberate to make sure we don't just get a ton of offer/telegram bots so the new member gate is doing its job, it is just not ideal at this scale right now.

While I figure something else out, and while these new members curse themselves for ignoring LES and posting anime memes on LET if you could help out by up/down voting those that you think are human in the new members section, that would be appreciated.

If we don't have the manpower or willpower to blast through these, I will have to solo it with admin powers, which I will do later tonight if any are still hovering in no man's land.

I will appreciate this by giving hosts LES ad revenue to post more of these offers or similar ones or underwriting other services so we get more offers like this (This one was totally on Shock Hosting, though)

Thanks!

Will give it a go.

Thanks for pointing out the shockhosting deal, let's see if I can get one via DM.

curiouswanderer

Should we be clearer on the purpose of the new member approval process? I thought it was just about preventing bots. Some of those posts feel completely human to me but they got voted out. My guess is that people just don't like users from NodeSeek in general due to potential abusive behaviors from quite a few of them. I totally get it, I hate that too, but that is like guilty until proven innocent and I think it's just very hard to judge that.

We already have the system to vote someone down when they behave like asshole, maybe we should stick with that instead of assuming they would cause trouble?

msatt

So many potential new members and pretty much all of them are here because of 'the deal' and not to be REAL / interactive members.
I know from FOSSVPS that attracting the right person to use your resources is so important and I have been burned badly by NS members. So my feeling (likely not popular) is to protect the forum and potential deal providers by being VERY cautious of these 'surge' members.

terrorgen

@curiouswanderer said:
Should we be clearer on the purpose of the new member approval process? I thought it was just about preventing bots. Some of those posts feel completely human to me but they got voted out. My guess is that people just don't like users from NodeSeek in general due to potential abusive behaviors from quite a few of them. I totally get it, I hate that too, but that is like guilty until proven innocent and I think it's just very hard to judge that.

We already have the system to vote someone down when they behave like asshole, maybe we should stick with that instead of assuming they would cause trouble?

If they signed up another time, sure.

This wave of surge though, we know what they are here for.

If someone got caught in the crossfire, then maybe try registering again after the wave.

MichaelCee

@curiouswanderer said:
Should we be clearer on the purpose of the new member approval process? I thought it was just about preventing bots. Some of those posts feel completely human to me but they got voted out. My guess is that people just don't like users from NodeSeek in general due to potential abusive behaviors from quite a few of them. I totally get it, I hate that too, but that is like guilty until proven innocent and I think it's just very hard to judge that.

We already have the system to vote someone down when they behave like asshole, maybe we should stick with that instead of assuming they would cause trouble?

From my POV, there are dozens of humans using the same copy paste (likely translated) template to answer the questions. Like I said earlier, people are trying to look better like it's a job application. I'd much rather more genuine replies

Docker_dude

There are also people who write perfectly, I think there should be multiple things to flag a new member AI, e.g the sentences, the way the words are writen etc.

sumo

Scanned through all the new members requests, looked at the ones 1-3 karma away from approval and upvoted the ones that looked human (or human enough). After a few applications, it seems theres a convergence of answers. LLMs with their annoying em dashes are present, c'est la vie.

AnthonySmith

well the thing is if they ever want deals like this they have to actually join and take part in advance because right now they cant see it anyway and if its behind karmagate (I think it is) then they still wont see it even when upvoted, so if you think they are human, (and not dicks) upvote them no harm.

But yes this has hilighted a bigger issue, I need some time to consider options, anything that used to work no longer works, turnstyle, captcha, badbots, stopforumspam, you need something unique and random to catch LLM's out.

What I do not want is to make taking part in LES so hard for regular people that it puts them off so you shoot yourself in the foot, that was the problem with the previous system: people had to wait days or weeks for approval, which was crazy.

sh97

@barbaros said:
Give them all new status called MJJ, at least they will be recognizable out in public.

hello,
i feel attacked

edmarhub

We need more like of shockhosting offers here 🤝

msatt

@edmarhub said:
We need more like of shockhosting offers here 🤝

Agreed, but ShockHosting and LES need 'quality' users and not abusers.

TinaBlack

First of all, thank you for letting me be part of this community! I’ve been here for a few months now, and I love it. The discussions, the deals, and the blog posts are great. The Deadpool Files have been my favorite!

I’m sorry you have to deal with so many bots, but I always get a laugh out of the same question.

You own 5 sheep in a field. Two escape through a broken fence into the next field, and you need all 5 sheep to remain in the field. How many sheep do you still own?

LOL, some people actually say less than 5. Like, what? Just because two sheep wandered off, you suddenly don’t own them anymore? Haha. They didn’t run away and start a new life. They’re still your sheep!

sumo

@AnthonySmith said:
well the thing is if they ever want deals like this they have to actually join and take part in advance because right now they cant see it anyway and if its behind karmagate (I think it is) then they still wont see it even when upvoted, so if you think they are human, (and not dicks) upvote them no harm.

But yes this has hilighted a bigger issue, I need some time to consider options, anything that used to work no longer works, turnstyle, captcha, badbots, stopforumspam, you need something unique and random to catch LLM's out.

What I do not want is to make taking part in LES so hard for regular people that it puts them off so you shoot yourself in the foot, that was the problem with the previous system: people had to wait days or weeks for approval, which was crazy.

How "active" is the goal for LES? activity and quality/toxicity are inversely proportional.

AnthonySmith

@sumo said:

@AnthonySmith said:
well the thing is if they ever want deals like this they have to actually join and take part in advance because right now they cant see it anyway and if its behind karmagate (I think it is) then they still wont see it even when upvoted, so if you think they are human, (and not dicks) upvote them no harm.

But yes this has hilighted a bigger issue, I need some time to consider options, anything that used to work no longer works, turnstyle, captcha, badbots, stopforumspam, you need something unique and random to catch LLM's out.

What I do not want is to make taking part in LES so hard for regular people that it puts them off so you shoot yourself in the foot, that was the problem with the previous system: people had to wait days or weeks for approval, which was crazy.

How "active" is the goal for LES? activity and quality/toxicity are inversely proportional.

Yeah, it's a tough one, i dont really want people posting anime memes here all day, and saying first, second, third etc etc, but I am also aware I am hurtling towards being 50 years old so may just not "get it" like I know the old dudes did not "get it" when i was a whipper snapper.

I have not made a huge secret of it but I am seriously considering stepping down, back, or at least backgrounding myself in the new year. LES traffic (human traffic) has tripled, the forum is stable, the software is up to date, the costs are cut back to the bone, and it has a small revenue stream to make things happen, but honestly my passion for "running the show" is very low; I much prefer being a contributor.

I might take on a guardian role on the domain or something to make sure johns pillow never owns it, but I am thinking someone on the right side of 30 probably needs to take it forward for it to have a longer life now.

msatt

@AnthonySmith said: I have not made a huge secret of it but I am seriously considering stepping down, back, or at least backgrounding myself in the new year.

We all have our up and down days Ant and I know you have been having a difficult time.... but

@AnthonySmith said: LES traffic (human traffic) has tripled, the forum is stable, the software is up to date, the costs are cut back to the bone, and it has a small revenue stream to make things happen

You have been doing a brilliant job. You may get some criticism but seriously look at johns pillow. Sorry mate, I can't agree with you stepping down you are too fucking good !!!

sumo

@AnthonySmith said:

I might take on a guardian role on the domain or something to make sure johns pillow never owns it, but I am thinking someone on the right side of 30 probably needs to take it forward for it to have a longer life now.

You could form a non-profit to umbrella LES. That way, there are more formalized roles and potential to interface to other projects.

mfs

I remember when this place was quite different, well before 2019, when I finally signed up after parting ways with LET. I'd lurked for quite a while before that and always found it a nice niche. Things changed a bit after 2019, and I believe every admin here has done their best. The Redditification isn't really my cup of tea, though, and neither is the Discordification.

As for the current onboarding process: even if the offer sits behind a "karmagate" (or whatever we call it), the fact that an MJJ-compatible offer popped up on NodeSeek, or whichever forum they're using these days, means more people will end up leaking exclusive deals anyway.

IMHO, the only other reasonable way to keep an "exclusive", extremely limited deal actually exclusive is for providers to do what Neoon suggested: hand out single-use custom codes to legit LESbians, or check for themselves that whoever signs up has at least 10 non-spammy posts and an account that's at least 3 months old. I acknowledge that's probably asking too much.
OTOH, trying to hide these deals without the provider's cooperation is like holding back the sea with your bare hands

AnthonySmith

@mfs said: OTOH, trying to hide these deals without the provider's cooperation is like holding back the sea with your bare hands

I tried that for a while; i started by brushing water uphill for a while, then after a number of years, the black sea won the fight.

now I live by the words of our lord and Saviour... Keanu Reeves.

And

ascicode

@mfs said:
IMHO, the only other reasonable way to keep an "exclusive", extremely limited deal actually exclusive is for providers to do what Neoon suggested: hand out single-use custom codes to legit LESbians, or check for themselves that whoever signs up has at least 10 non-spammy posts and an account that's at least 3 months old. I acknowledge that's probably asking too much.

Code sent through PM with/without a gate of microsoft forms asking for usernames, this getting merged with signup dates of les. All before signed up are qualified. All signups during an offer getting rejected. Possible to choose by every provider.

Scene 2: You need at least 50-100 karma to get in and an amount of posts.

oloke

I'm not sure if i ever saw so many Nodeseek threads after a sale..
Karma-based guardrails on offer post would've probably prevented that spilling over and mjjs getting LES exclusive deals.

AnthonySmith

@oloke said:

I'm not sure if i ever saw so many Nodeseek threads after a sale..
Karma-based guardrails on offer post would've probably prevented that spilling over and mjjs getting LES exclusive deals.

at least the new members can't PM so that's a small amount of protection.

curiouswanderer

I won’t be surprised that NodeSeek might have a thread about people asking existing members to approve their new LES accounts

AnthonySmith

@curiouswanderer said:
I won’t be surprised that NodeSeek might have a thread about people asking existing members to approve their new LES accounts

you need to have a certain amount of karma and account age to be able to upvote in that section anyway and it's unlikely they will reach that threshold.

I did have to lower it a bit today when asking for help, I will patch that hole tomorrow.

terrorgen

Microlxc and nanokvm plugs into the forums to verify username and eligibility.

Maybe this is something we can borrow from @Neoon